UK "Pura Cup": who'd be up to it?

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Goatman

Why spend 30,000 on a 30 year old saffer journeyman when you can spend the same on two teenagers, one of which may develop into a 1st XI player in a couple of years (and saving money to spend on better 1st XI players...)? If you buy a kolpacker, you have to be sure they will be a safe 1st XI player. Free market economics can also help the natives.

Goaty, I am with you.. and I see it - I worry though that some County Chairmen/Coashes don't see it....

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by Andy Mellon

Where I am not happy is with second rate imports being brought in, who even if they are better than an English player, are only marginally so. People like Ryan ten Doeshate and Hylton Ackerman.

Surely this is very, very small potatoes when you consider that young ENG players currently have 117 first class cricket places available to them compared to 66 in AUS! They have absolutely no right to complain!

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Andy Mellon

Why Ackerman got the captaincy of his county is another problem when players who are just as experienced but English were available.

Perhaps because he's a damn fine player who brings more to Leicestershire than any other player on their books, and more to County Cricket than English journeymen like Maddy?

I keep hearing about these "second rate" Kolpakers... but if Ackerman is an example then I think the criticism is totally misguided: if Ackerman isn't fit for County Cricket then neither are Butcher, Saggers and Anderson.

ps. Just looked up Ackerman's contributions to Leicestershire in the County Championship this season: 4 x 50s in 10 innings and an average of 48.87... which is double the contribution of Maddy .. who strikes me as exactly the sort of player who would (quite rightly) have fallen by the wayside in Australia, unable to secure a Pura Cup squad place let alone get into a starting XI.

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Goaty, I am with you.. and I see it - I worry though that some County Chairmen/Coashes don't see it....

I think you are right. I also think that you will find those clubs propping up Div2 in 5 years time.

The comment about Maddy is also accurate. Leics are going to have to watch out for an exodus of those home players they still have if they carry on as they are doing! Short term gain rarely translates into long term benefit.

[Andy Mellon]

Originally Posted by Goatman

They have absolutely no right to complain!

You've obviously never seen Ryan ten Doeschate bowl then Goaty Seriously though, he does rarely get a game for Essex which I suppose kind of supports what you're saying. I guess Essex employ him due to the high risk of the main strike attack being injured (Gough, Tudor, Cowan) hence they need some strength in depth (though I hesitate to use the word 'strength' about RtD!!)

Rachael... What has Maddy done to upset you? He's a much better player than Ackerman. Why is he a 'journeyman? If we were talking about someone like Dale Benkenstein who's obviously brought a lot to Durham, then I may agree... But Ackerman?!? Are we talking about the same player?!?

[Rachael]

I have no great knowledge of Ackerman.. but also no problem with him on the basis of what I have been finding out: assorted sources sugegst he's very talented.... which is more than you can say for Maddy. That said.. I've nothing GREATLY against Maddy.... it's just that he's ordinary.. and I don't want English guys who are ordinary accepted ahead of Kolpakers who bring more to the party.

[flanflinger]

If Ackerman is SO talented why has he only played 4 Tests?

Incidentaly Maddy has played 3... and 8 ODI's (8 more than HD) not bad for a Journeyman - incidentally for me a Journeyman is a player who has played for a numebr of different clubs but never really done anything - Maddy has just played forEngland and Leicestershire..Ackerman has played for South Africa, Gauteng, Leicestershire, Lions and Western Province

Who's the Journeyman?

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Rachael

and I don't want English guys who are ordinary accepted ahead of Kolpakers who bring more to the party.

I agree slightly but I would rather see a Young Potential English Played selected ahaed of Kolpaks. Lecicester have a few - icluding Chris Broad's son, why should they lose their oppportunity to prove themselves because some Saffer wnats a nice house in Camps Bay?

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

I agree slightly but I would rather see a Young Potential English Played selected ahaed of Kolpaks. Lecicester have a few - icluding Chris Broad's son, why should they lose their oppportunity to prove themselves because some Saffer wnats a nice house in Camps Bay?

If he's any good, he won't.

[flanflinger]

Goaty, I wish I had your opptimism.

The problem is that playing someone youngfer involves taking a risk... Some coaches aren't prepared to take taht Risk, and would prefer to go with the safe bet. Even if it only has short term benefits.

As a Surrey fan I have watched Surrey regularily play two players that I thought were average Tim Murtagh and James Benning. Having been blessed with two great Seamers Bicknell and Ormond, I never got what they saw in Murtagh and also having watched the Hollioakes, James Benning seems to me to be ordinary.

However, they have stuck with these two, when they could have shipped in a Kolpak etc.. They have taken risks. On Monday Murtagh bowled the best spell I have seen, he had an extra yard of pace and was far more accurate, Benning batted beautifully and then picked up wickets when called on to bowl.

Had they not played in the first XI, had Medlycott and now Rixon, not been prepared to take risks they may have not started to improve.

I would love to say that the young talent will come through, but some players need some time and that involves Risk, this may "dillute" the quality (as Rachael may say) but long term it will improve it.