UK "Pura Cup": who'd be up to it?

[Rachael]

This is NOT a thread started to knock the existing county structure, nor to discuss the merits of an alternative arrangement: I'm just interested in getting some clearer picture of how many England Qualified / Overseas players (Kolpak or otherwise) are at what level.

We need some sort of definition of "up to it" and I'd appreciate some input from the Aussies on this: if we set the standard as being "Pura Cup" level... what would that actually mean? It's obviously down from Aussie Test level... and is presumably up from the level of WI and Zimbabwe / Bangladesh... but how would it compare to the sort of level set by Pakistan or NZ?

We should probably start off with the definites: guys who are Test level or something approaching Test level (I'm meaning Test level for England, not Bangladesh). How many are there? How far beyond the development squad of 25 does that sort of class extend?

The first nominations are that squad: Michael Vaughan*, Kabir Ali, James Anderson*, Gareth Batty, Ian Bell, Mark Butcher*, Paul Collingwood, Andrew Flintoff*, Ashley Giles*, Darren Gough, Stephen Harmison*, Matthew Hoggard*, Geraint Jones*, Simon Jones*, Robert Key, Jon Lewis, Kevin Pietersen, Chris Read, Vikram Solanki, Andrew Strauss*, Graeme Swann, Chris Tremlett, Graham Thorpe*, Marcus Trescothick* and Alex Wharf

Profiles can be read at http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...nd/4516385.stm

I take it we should continue the further nominations with those considered unlucky to miss out (e.g. Prior, Foster) and those ommitted on age grounds rather than ability grounds (e.g. Hick, Ramprakash, Bicknell, Caddick).

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

How many do you need rachael ?

[Rachael]

I'm interested first and foremost in who'd be playing if we had 6 teams with 15 per squad... so maybe 90 players. That would at least lay down a marker for what sort of class and ability would be needed to get into first class cricket (and by extension, what sort of competition any young "England prospect" would face to get a place.

That said... the other thing that would be interesting to see is how many Pura Cup level teams we think this country could sustain from deomestic players alone: would we get as far as 6.. or would we get beyond that? If we dry up at 70 players I'll be unimpressed... but I'd be stunned if we hit 140 - we shall see!

[flanflinger]

Rikki Clarke...

[flanflinger]

In fact from Surrey

Rikki Clarke, Scott Newman, Mark Ramprakash, Jon Batty, Ali Brown, Martin Bicknell, Ian Salisbury and Jimmy Ormond. Is Butch in the development squad?

Apart from Batty and Newman - all have played for the senior England team...

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Richard Johnson, Jason Brown, Keedy

[Rachael]

LOL - Can we agree on forming a sub-group of prospects who ought to be in the frame for potential? Will be interesting to asee what chance we think they might have of getting a game.

ps. county by county basis makes sense: less likely to miss anyone!

[Pete]

Owais Shah and Ed Joyce.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

the lad J Francis from Somerset who isnt that old (early 20s I THINK) seems to be doing OK today and has had a couple of decent knocks already.

Richard johnson IMHO, would be in ahead of hoggard (and would have been for some time) had he been fit. So for the sake of argument, lets say he's fit.

[Andy Mellon]

With all due respect, I think a lot of county triers wouldn't get into a Pura Cup side. Pura Cup level is a helluva lot more competitive from what I have seen then county cricket. Whilst England test players would definately compete, and England A players would also compete, I doubt very much if a state side would want or indeed need any of these players to play for them.

Now, I guess what you are asking more is who would get into regional teams if England were to do what South Africa did and generate a regional level of cricket above County Cricket.

The names put forward so far are definately reasonable - though Jon Batty seems a bit excessive. We could also look to those who competed in the Hong Kong sixes (Maynard, Napier, Mascarenhas) and those we selected for the England A team last year and were involved in the selection procedure (Jefferson, Hutton, Wallace, Harrison, Davies, Mahmood, Wagh) and other names could include Adshead, Udal, Moore, Hildreth, Jon Lewis (Durham) who would all be capable of competing at that level.