All time Overseas XI

[Microshocker]

Marshall was a great bowler but not the greatest ever. The best batsman of his time was in his own team and the only worthwhile batsmen didn't go after the bowling. Besides, he had 4 other greats bowling alongisde him in sometimes unpredictable west indian wickets.

GREAT GREAT BOWLER

greatest ever? you been smokin some jamaican crack, mon?

[The Phantom Ram]

Originally Posted by Maranello

Also, one criteria for this team should surely be performance in the County Championship, not just Test or overseas records - otherwise, this team will end up being a routine World XI over the past 30 years. And if performance for one's county is the criterion, Wasim is right up there, alongwith the best overseas stars Imran, Hadlee, Garner, Waqar, Richards and Rice et al. Not sure if Kapil was as much of a success for his county as Wasim was over eleven years for Lancashire.

That is exactly what I was trying to get - an overseas team based on county performances. We seem to be discussing Test performances which, as most of the better test players have played in County Cricket at some point, would just become a World XI. I perhaps started that with the inclusion of Kapil Dev who only played 40 first class games (for Northants & Worcs) although he did average 42 with the bat and 26 with the ball. What I shall do tonight is put some stats on for the players that have been mentioned. This will help the likes of Marshall and Wasim who played CC for a long long time.

Up until then add some other players you think maybe worthy of selection.

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by Microshocker

Marshall was a great bowler but not the greatest ever. The best batsman of his time was in his own team and the only worthwhile batsmen didn't go after the bowling. Besides, he had 4 other greats bowling alongisde him in sometimes unpredictable west indian wickets.

GREAT GREAT BOWLER

greatest ever? you been smokin some jamaican crack, mon?

Crack is produced in other countries but not in Jamaica, and I didn't think that I had to pass my opiion through you.

I assume when you say the best batsman of his time you mean Viv Richards.

Now, if you cared to actually check the recods, you'd see that Marshall regularly had the better of theie tussles in Shell Shield cricket when Barbados played the Leeward Islands. In fact, Viv only got one hundred vs Barbados in this form of cricket.

So yes, Malcolm Marshall, the greatest ever. No doubt in my mind. You, of course, can choose to have another opinion

[The Phantom Ram]

I'm going to add Mohammed Azharuddin, Michael Slater, Dean Jones and Michael Holding into the mix (spot the Derbyshire theme?)

[Andy Mellon]

I have to agree with Ninjaman on this. I'm a great fan of Wasim, who was not only a fantastic all-rounder, but also great to watch. I'm also a huge fan of Ambrose, who's my favourite bowler of all-time. However, having seen Marshall in action a couple of times in county cricket, as well as countless times on television, he should be in there.

In terms of the bowling contenders - Kapil Dev, Marshall, Ambrose, Wasim, Hadlee, Murali and Warne, I think it says something in the context of this thread that I can put a county name next to each of these players - except Kapil Dev. Marshall for Hants, Ambrose for Northants, Wasim for Lancs, Hadlee for Notts, Murali for Lancs and Warne for Hants (and yes, I know Wasim also played for Hants, and Murali played for Kent). I think this tends to suggest that they may have been the more successful county performers.

Also, I think it important to note that Warne hasn't been too big a presence in County Cricket either. He has only played 3 seasons in county cricket (2000, 2004 and 2005). Personally, for a second spinning option, I think we should be looking at Saqlain Mushtaq who's played for Surrey since 1997 or Mushtaq Ahmed who's played for Sussex (helped them win the County Championship for their first time) as well as Somerset (93-98) and Surrey. He took 103 wickets in 2003 and 84 wickets in 2004 compared to only 51 for Warne. Mushtaq Ahmed would be more of a replacement for Warne than Saqlain, who might be a bit similar to Murali.

I also think it incredible that there's no space for any Aussie batsmen when they've dominated the batting averages so often over the last 20 years. Allan Border, Mark Waugh, Matt Elliott, Michael Slater - and they're only some of the more capped players. Others like Mike and David Hussey and Stuart Law have also been very influential county players. However, it is difficult to take out Haynes(Middlesex) or Greenidge(Hampshire)

[The Phantom Ram]

Cheers for that Andy, all those names will keep me busy! My wife will be pleased!! I may try and do it batsman, all - rounders and then bowlers as seperate sections.

Keep proposing names everyone and I will include them in the research.

[The Phantom Ram]

These are the players I have picked out of the thread so far. I have put them in 1 of 4 catorgories to help us pick a balanced XI. I will now start getting some facts on the players county records, so feel free to add new players and also suggest players are in the wrong catergory.


Batsmen
Gordon Greenidge
Des Haynes
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Ricky Ponting
Stuart Law
Mark Waugh
Allan Border
Salim Malik
Grant Flower
Stephen Fleming
Larry Gomes
Matt Elliott
Mike Hussey
David Hussey
Michael Slater
Dean Jones
Mohammed Azharuddin
Darren Lehmann


All Rounder
Imran Khan
Kapil Dev
Ian Harvey
Nathan Astle
Clive Rice
Garfield Sobers
Chris Cairns
Franklyn Stephenson
Jacques Kallis

Wicketkeeper
Andy Flower

Bowlers
Richard Hadlee
Shane Warne
Curtly Ambrose
Murali Murallitharan
Michael Holding
Joel Garner
Courtney Walsh
Malcolm Marshall
Allan Donald
Shaun Pollock
Glenn McGrath
Mike Kasprowicz
Waqar Younis
Wasim Akram
Chaminda Vaas
Saqlain Mushtaq
Mushtaq Ahmed

[greg]

You could add Lehmann for batting,Harvey as an all-rounder

[The Phantom Ram]

Originally Posted by greg

You could add Lehmann for batting,Harvey as an all-rounder

Edited Lehman in for you, Harvey is already there. Are you a big fan of tubby Australians?

[The Phantom Ram]

The records below are first class records and therefore may (and will include University games and any other first class games for their county). The figures, incase they don’t format very well will be,

Batting – Matches, Runs, Average, 100’s
Bowling – Matches, Wickets, Average, 5fers

I will only include relevant info, for example Gordon Greenidge will not be selected on the back of a handful of wickets he took in 1979, so I won’t include his bowling figures.

Batsmen
Gordon Greenidge (Hampshire) Batting – 275, 19840, 45.40, 48
Des Haynes (Middlesex) Batting – 95, 7071, 49.10, 21
Viv Richards (Somerset & Glamorgan) Batting – 240, 18080, 49.26, 57
Brian Lara (Warwickshire) Batting – 30, 3099, 63.24, 12
Ricky Ponting (Somerset) Batting – 3, 297, 99.00, 2
Stuart Law (Essex & Lancashire) Batting – 144, 12926, 59.57, 43
Mark Waugh (Essex) Batting – 82, 6690, 59.73, 22
Allan Border (Essex & Gloucestershire) Batting – 41, 2793, 53.42. 10
Salim Malik (Essex) Batting – 39, 2889, 55.55, 8
Grant Flower (Leicestershire & Essex) Batting – 9, 384, 27.43, 1
Stephen Fleming (Middlesex, Yorkshire & Notts) Batting – 30, 2406, 53.47, 8
Larry Gomes (Middlesex) Batting – 42, 1199, 22.20, 0
Matthew Elliott (Yorkshire & Glamorgan) Batting – 40, 3655, 52.97, 11
Mike Hussey (Gloucs, Northants & Durham) Batting – 57, 6403, 72.76, 18
David Hussey (Notts) Batting – 28, 2198, 66.60, 8
Michael Slater (Derbyshire) Batting – 24, 1388, 33.85, 2
Dean Jones (Durham & Derbyshire) Batting – 40, 3139, 56.05, 8
Mohammed Azharuddin (Derbyshire) Batting – 31, 2728, 54.46, 9
Darren Lehmann (Yorkshire) Batting – 73, 7165, 66.96, 20
Clive Lloyd (Lancashire) Batting – 219, 12764, 44.94, 30
Alvin Kallicharran (Warwicks) – 285, 18158, 43.75, 52


If anyone knows how to code this to make it read easier please let me know. There are a few obvious anomolies on there Ponting & Flower (with only 12 games between them) and Gomes & Slater (averaging 22 & 33 respectively) probably shouldn't be in the list. It is amazing when you see that the likes of Greenidge and Richards played over 200 county games. Admitedley in those days there were 24 games per season and an overseas player played all season rather than in between his international commitments. Stil a lot of games though. I shall post the details for the all -rounders, bowlers and wicket keepers and we shall start to pick the side.


NOTE Lloyd & Kallicharran added to the list.