WAT England A 2006 selectors wanted

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

I agree that Plunkett, Mahmood and Broad need development, but that is why you have an A team. To help bridge the gap.

I think Mahmood will be brought on as a natural replacemnt for Simon Jones, also Broad deserves a spot also in our A Team.
I think Broad could well play in the coming one dayers.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by admin

You better PM him because he hasn't registered any interest in participating in this years selection process. He may not even have read this thread.

Am off on hols tomorrow for two weeks so thought my participation would be cut short.

Shreck has bowled excellently this summer, probably better than Saj in County Cricket. I wouldn't like to make the call. I don't believe Shreck would ever get near the actual England squad though, Sidebottom hasn't!

I'll also be very surprised if Broad doesn't play in the ODI series. Harmison will most likely miss it so we'll need a replacement. Broad has bowled very well when I've seen him, the Twenty20 finals day was a perferct example, he handles the pressure well.

[The Phantom Ram]

I have read through these 8 pages of posts and read the arguements already developing. People obviously have very strong opinions, which is needed to select a strong and balanced team. It is also evident that people are selecting the team on very different criteria. Before I begin to discuss players I would benefit firstly from a recap of the rules - relating to age, international appearances and CC games this year. Secondly and more importantly I would like to know what we are selecting this team for. Are we looking at picking the next best XI players (after the strongest England test XI) who good go out and win matches around the world today or are we looking to expose the most promising 11 cricketers to international cricket to increase their experience and prepare them for their future call up. I think if we firstly agree these principles we will all 'be singing form the same songsheet' and we will only be arguing about the merits of the player rather than potential versus current ability debate.

For what it is worth, and I accept I am a lot less knowledgable than all of you, I feel we should pick a team that has potential to play for England at the top level rather than the current players ranked 12-22 in the English game.

I can also confirm (and this backs up my less knowledgable tag!) that I will again be championing the cause of an undeserving Derbyshire player, but then you wouldn't expect anything less!!!

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Ram

I feel we should pick a team that has potential to play for England at the top level rather than the current players ranked 12-22 in the English game.

Now then.... if someone reports that there's a very impressive 14 year old leg spinner at their local club... a kid all the coaches agree is going to play for England one day... do we pick him right now, before he's even played at county level?

I'd say not, because he, like everyone else, has to go out and show he's ready: to do otherwise would be to devalue the cap.

One "kid" this year is Broad: barely out of nappies and whilst exciting, not yet setting the world on fire. The senior pro who HAS been setting the world on fire is Mascarenhas... who appears to have been nothing short of sensational.... and if he's overlooked in favour of the kid that sends out an appalling message to county players - basically "forget it, go play tiddlywinks, your face doesn't fit, nothing you ever do will be good enough".

Picking Mascarenhas sends out the best message possible to county players: it's never to late, keep working at it and we WILL take notice.

I don't have a problem with swinging behind clear England prospects when they are ALSO delivering the goods... but to take another example... Mahmood has not been delivering the goods. IN Tests he's been just plain awful: he's mostly bowled at a level that even an old warhorse like Dominick Cork or Andy Caddick would have bettered. He's certainly not bowled to the level I believe Shreck has been maintaining.

Mahmood MIGHT be one for the future... but the Aussies dropped Michael Clarke (perhaps the most promising young batsman on the planet) and told him to bugger off and sort his act out... and I don't think we should be afraid to do the same with Mahmood: tell him he sucked this year and will have to improve if he's to get selected.

[Vrock]

Originally Posted by Rachael

One "kid" this year is Broad: barely out of nappies and whilst exciting, not yet setting the world on fire. The senior pro who HAS been setting the world on fire is Mascarenhas... who appears to have been nothing short of sensational.

Stuart Broad has just been named in England's one-day squad. Setting the world on fire? I don't hear the name of Mascerenhas on everyone's lips for top performers this season.

Also, unless he magically got faster over the winter, Mascerenhas bowls at about 70mph (just watched highlights of Surrey v Hampshire at the Oval last year, C&G semi-final). On the flat pitches of the test world now-a-days can Mascerenhas be as effective as he is at the (more than helpful) Rose Bowl?

[Ernest]

Oh I se they have selected Mahmood in the squad - I think that is silly after his rather goodish strt to test cricket, I believe he is not the greatest one day player at least yet - it does young Test player no good to see their bowling hammered with unprotected fields.

[admin]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Ram

Before I begin to discuss players I would benefit firstly from a recap of the rules - relating to age, international appearances and CC games this year.

I usually recap the rules when I start a new selection thread so check the previous selection threads I started and you should find the rules near the beginning of the thread.

Originally Posted by The Phantom Ram

Secondly and more importantly I would like to know what we are selecting this team for.

The key qualifying rules should suggest the main purpose of the team. All the players are under 30 at the end of the current season. This qualifying rule alone suggests we are not trying to pick a Test 2nd XI otherwise Test veterans would fill the team. So, if we aren't promoting Test veterans we must be promoting fringe players. It's likely that a fringe player will be a regular in a First-class team. If he's played less than half the current FC season he's either missed matches through injury, been selected on national squads, or is a 2nd XI player getting experience in FC when the seniors or overseas players are unavailable. I don't regard this latter group as a fringe player, therefore, to qualify, a player must have played at least 8 FC domestic matches. If not, they must have played England A matches, ODIs or Test matches in the current calendar year. In otherwords, they must be identifiable as a fringe player or an up-and-coming player. Not a veteran, not a 2nd XI player.

The initial qualifying list is quite large so what type of players are we looking for? The strongest candidates for the WAT team will have the best form (suggested by their stats) in the key disciplines in the current season or exceptional consistency over two or more seasons. Other strong factors are their development record: ie appearances in International matches: U/19s, England A, Academy squads, ODI squads or teams, Test squads or teams. Mascerenhas is a strong candidate due to his great and consistent record over the past three seasons in FC County cricket. Mahmood is a strong candidate due to his great development record ie his many appearances in development and national squads and international matches. Mascerenhas has class and Mahmood has experience. The WAT team recognizes and rewards exceptional talent that has potential, if given the opportunity, to progress to Test level. Some say that Mascerenhas, if given the opportunity, wouldn't be successful at Test level due to his medium-fast pace and the flat or slow wickets usually found at Test venues. However, he has well and truly earned the right to be given an opportunity to prove himself at Test level. Just because he doesn't fit the Fletcher ideal of a Test bowling all-rounder doesn't mean we shouldn't consider him for the WAT team. So, it's up to the individual selector whether they want to promote Mascerenhas-type players or Mahmood-type players or both but, at the end of the day, the team must be balanced in its own right as though it has been selected for a 4 or 5 day match.

[Mike]

WAT Eng A 2005 Mike's XI 2005 Mike's XI 2006 Batsmen Batsmen Batsmen

SA Newman              SA Newman              SA Newman 
AN Cook                AN Cook                ET Smith 
EC Joyce               OA Shah                EC Joyce
OA Shah                EC Joyce               DJG Sales
PD Collingwood         PD Collingwood         MH Yardy

Batting A/R Batting A/R Batting A/R

None                   AGR Loudon             R Clarke 

Wicketkeeper Wicketkeeper  Wicketkeeper

JS Foster              MJ Prior               MJ Prior

Bowling A/R Bowling A/R Bowling A/R

AD Mascarenhas         AD Mascarenhas         JWM Dalrymple  

Bowlers Bowlers Bowlers

CT Tremlett            CT Tremlett            SCJ Broad
M Davies               M Davies               CT Tremlett
M Panesar              RJ Sidebottom          SI Mahmood
RJ Sidebottom

[Rachael]

1. Joyce is a straightforward selection, but the only one of the batsmen who is self-evident.

2. Clarke doesn't strike me as any good as a bowler but his batting this season does make him credible. Dalrymple should, however, get the batting all-rounder's spot: he's a batsman who bowls, not a frontline spinner.

3. In terms of continuity, Mascarenhas (who you picked the previous two years) has just had the season of his life: he's been one of THE bowlers of the year... and has batted well... and is a stronger candidate for bowling all-rounder than he's ever been (and you argued for him pretty vociferously in the past): you'll need to account for your change of heart in the face of great evidence of superb progress.

4. Mahmood has been nothing short of crap. He's had two crap series in Test cricket in which he's been just the odd bright over short an unmitigated failure (being completely anonymous in almost all spells and looking contributing just about nothing in most matches) and he's now been dropped from the ODI side because he can't be trusted. He's been overtaken in many eyes by a kid in nappies whose still growing, has no real experience and is still learning the basics of his trade.

5. Last year you were vehemently against Panesar because it was 'too soon' to be picking him: you wanted him to get another season under his belt. Broad is just as bad.... and unlike Panesar has genuine competition (Tremlett, Shreck). I'm not saying he's bad... but you need to explain your change in tack!

6. Prior... well... as last year he still can't 'keep. That sank him then and it should sink him now: he sucks. More to the point he's not a patch on Steven Davies... and the latter averages 41.45 in the county championship this year!

Aside from Joyce, Dalrymple, Davies and Tremlett I'm not 100% sure who'd be in my XI... but Clarke will have to get in as a batsman if at all, as will Yardy... and Mascarenhas is looking better set than either. Shreck may make it as THE strike bowler of the year... and after that I'm even less sure.

[Mike]

I'm getting my team in early because I won't be able to participate in the selection discussion thread due to my move back to OZ. Consequently, I won't be available to act as Chairman of Selectors. So, I need a volunteer for that role.

I'd like to make some brief comments about my selections.

Alastair Cook was one of last years openers but has been a regular for England which disqualifies him from consideration in this year's WAT team. Fortunately, Scott Newman has continued his consistency with another fine year averaging 56.2 against the best clubs in 2nd Division and was an automatic choice to regain his spot. The other opening spot was more difficult to fill due to a lack of strong candidates. As an opener, ET Smith averaged 51.5 against the top clubs in 1st Division so he got my vote for the 2nd opening spot.

Ed Joyce had another fine year averaging 59.5 against the top clubs in 1st Division so was an automatic choice for the third batting spot. I dropped Owais Shah due to a disappointing CC season. He had opportunities in 'A' games for England and a Test match in India but didn't capitalize on that experience in the Championship. The fourth batting spot was very difficult to choose with quite a few good candidates to choose from. I considered MJ Powell from Glamorgan and U Afzaal and decided David Sales was worthy of that spot after knocking on the door for the past two seasons.

The fifth batting spot I gave to Michael Yardy ahead of Alex Gidman. I like to have a part-time spinner in the batting line-up which is why Yardy got the nod ahead of Gidman who bowls medium pace.

Rikki Clarke was an automatic choice for the batting all-rounder role having had a fine season with the bat and is a handy change bowler. Clarke's selection was one of the factors behind Mascarenhas' unfortunate ommission.

I'm sticking with Matt Prior as the keeper. I think he is an exceptionally talented cricketer and has years on his side to improve his keeping. SM Davies looks to be an emerging talent but is still out of his depth at 'A' level. I'll give him another year or two to mature before I look at him seriously.

Jamie Dalrymple could be a Giles type spinning all-rounder and this has prompted me to select him ahead of Mascarenhas. He bowled well against the Pakistanis in the 'A' match which tipped this spot in his favour. Several factors have worked against Mascarenhas this year. I'm not keen on Doshi as a specialist spinner because he doesn't take many top order wickets against good sides. The three pace bowlers I've selected, Broad, Tremlett and Mahmood can take top-order wickets so deserve their place in the team. I'd have Tremlett and Mahmood opening the bowling with Broad and Clarke as the change bowlers. Dalrymple is capable of taking top-order wickets as he showed in the England A match against the Pakistanis. Yardy can chip in with some part-time slow bowling or medium pace as required.