Iron fists in a silk glove.

[Ernest]

Yes I am talking about Chris Read. again.

A good article on cricinfo by Andrew Miller has the Read v Jones in perspective.

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller

Read is arguably the most silky gloveman in the world today, certainly England's best since Jack Russell's heyday in the mid-1990s. And yet, England's desire to ape all things Australian led, in April 2004, to the most ruthless decision of Duncan Fletcher's hard-bitten tenure as coach.

Yes and he has never admitted he was wrong.

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller

What you might not know
For all the talk of Jones's superior batting, Read's first-class record stands very much up to scrutiny. In 167 matches, Read has scored 6632 runs at an average of 31.43, with nine hundreds and 36 fifties. Jones, in a shorter career, has 2757 runs from 67 matches, and his average (32.82) is not significantly greater. In addition, he has just four hundreds to his name - although one of these came in just his third Test. And there, one supposes, is the rub.

I think this is interesting in that Jones is not the form player, in fact Read had held his average over a much longer term, and Jones is on the way down.

BUT.

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller

What the future holds
He's getting used to biding his time, but whether his time comes again depends entirely on Jones' form and fitness in the coming months. As one of England's few remaining Ashes winners, Jones is unlikely to be axed ahead of the rematch Down Under but another unconvincing winter, and it could be time to ring the changes come the spring of 2007.

I think myself that it's a bit late AFTER the Ashes to see if Jones does produce the goods, picking Read after will be just a little to late.
A good read (no pun intended) .
I know this Read v Jones has been done to death, but I think this article looking at the situation as it is likely to be, makes for depressing reading - anyone agree.
Another Jones thread on Graveny Here , this really is a Read thread as he is the subject of the article by Andrew Miller.

[Teatime FatCat]

Just finished that article myself actually. We'll never know now I gues, unless Jones has an injury. However, what selector in the world would stand by him if he fails to make it to 50 in this series?

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Teatime FatCat

However, what selector in the world would stand by him if he fails to make it to 50 in this series?

Graveny - Miller??, it really is mind boggling to believe that one 50 in the coming series against Pakistan would keep Jones in the side, but that's the truth I fear.

[Vrock]

Originally Posted by Teatime FatCat

However, what selector in the world would stand by him if he fails to make it to 50 in this series?

England's selectors - every series it's the same old story; Jones will come good, just give him a chance.

So what that Read is averaging just a bit less than Jones in county cricket? He's facing attacks that probably contain only one or two bowlers who would even be considered for selection for their respective countries. He's facing the easy medium pacers who he really doesn't have to worry about on what are, now-a-days, pretty unhelpful wickets for the bowlers. Spin bowlers are rarer to be attacking in todays game, most of them just bowling steady line and length to force the batsman into a mistake, easy pickings if they go a little wrong. Don't forget the pressure to perform, especially in England, where Read often has to play in front of tens of people.

As long as we win is what matters, although if Read came into the side and dropped a catch (dare I suggest this), would we all be saying it's the pressure of test cricket or that he should be dropped?

For Read to actually get in the side based upon first class stats he would surely have to be making far more of those fifties into centuries. Once you get your eye in you should go onto make big scores - it is something which all batsmen must do - especially someone trying to get into a test side.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Vrock

As long as we win is what matters, although if Read came into the side and dropped a catch (dare I suggest this), would we all be saying it's the pressure of test cricket or that he should be dropped?

I think during his time as England keeper he did not drop catches, that was why there was some outrage at the way he was treated in the West Indies by Vaughan and Fletcher.

I suppose even the best keepers drop catches from time to time, truth is England have never found a like for like for A.P.E. Knott, I suppose Stewart was the nearest, but not as good a keeper.

Looking back I think a player like Stewart should be a dream for a coach the like of Fletcher, not too many mistakes, and plenty of runs.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Vrock

For Read to actually get in the side based upon first class stats he would surely have to be making far more of those fifties into centuries. Once you get your eye in you should go onto make big scores - it is something which all batsmen must do - especially someone trying to get into a test side.

FOUR first class centuries this calendar year. As many as GO Jones has made in his entire career. His 150 not against Pakistan is higher than any GO Jones score, ever, by 40 odd runs.

[Vrock]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

FOUR first class centuries this calendar year. As many as GO Jones has made in his entire career. His 150 not against Pakistan is higher than any GO Jones score, ever, by 40 odd runs.

That 150, made on pitch that the captain (Rob Key) labelled himself as flat, was against a Pakistani bowling attack who were more likely to have been taking things easier to not cause an injury (a lot of good that did). This means that Read was facing an attack that is missing two very key players in extracting movement from the pitch - however little there was.

I'm not saying it wasn't a good knock, or that any of his others haven't been, you still actually have to score the runs. However, the fact remains that county attacks/indeed this Pakistani attack offer(ed) much less of a challenge than world class test attack.

I think the fact that the selectors stayed, on face value, ignorant of Read's batting so close to a test match says it all (batting wise anyway).

[Collyisamackem]

Okay, the decision has been made over who will keep in this series. Like it or lump it that is Geraint Jones, not Chris Read, James Foster, Steven Davies or any other keeper for that matter, and it will be until at least the end of the series, when we can then analyse his performances. However, I question the wisdom of continually having a go during a series when it cannot possibly do the confidence of Jones and the team any good at all. Please wait until after to resume your criticism, and get behind the team. I hope I'm not appearing to try to gag people or deny them the right to criticise, which I am not attempting to do, but I think there's a time and place.

[Lemming]

There's no problem debating who should be keeping wicket for England. No problem talking about who should be in the team and why, so long as everyone maintains respect and doesn't get too carried away.

I, for one, don't believe in this 'let's just get behind the team now it's been picked' attitude. I see no reason whatsoever why I should get behind any team that includes players that I don't believe should be there (that is not neccessarily the case here, I am personally happy with the team). What's more important is that now they are there, we remain open-minded and judge their performances fairly.

The Read v Jones debate is going on for so long, but the forum has conducted itself well with regards to the matter and I don't think there is any problem talking about it.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Collyisamackem

However, I question the wisdom of continually having a go during a series when it cannot possibly do the confidence of Jones and the team any good at all. Please wait until after to resume your criticism, and get behind the team.

Like he'll be reading this today?

Seriously, this forum is all about debate. Things change daily that impact those debates. Re the keeping discussion: almost every week Jones' position becomes less safe as he fails and Read scores more runs. There are other issues but the mere fact that we keep returning to this one must prove something.