England's opening partnership for ODIs?

[Willow & Stumpy]

This has been a problem for England lately in Limited Overs Cricket, they just haven't find that right combination at the top of the order who can take advantage of the fielding restrictions. They have tried Strauss and Bell and it hasn't worked. I know this is a dangerous way to go about things but I would be tempted to try Tres and KP at the start to have a 15 over blitz.. with Strauss at three and followed by Bell at four. Maybe if we can get off to a good start then people like Strauss and Bell who like nudging the ball around can come in and do just that then at the end people like Read,Gough,Flintoff (if fit) and Clarke can bludgen it around.

[Rachael]

Which overseas player noted (last year?) that when you got early England wickets you tended to have got England because their best players were too high in the order?

Treco opens because that's what he specialises in... but it's bad news having him so exposed in the first overs... but at least Pietersen at 4 means there's a chance of one star getting to bat against second string bowlers with an older ball and without the pressure of fielding restrictions!

ps. How about Yardy as opener? When everyone's fit he could fit in as follows:

1. Tresco
2. Yardy
3. Joyce / Strauss / Vaughan / Bell
4. Pietersen
5. Flintoff
6. Collingwood
7. Dalrymple
8. Read
9. Giles / Blackwell / Broad / Plunkett
10. S. Jones / Mahmood / Harmison
11. Anderson

That's a pretty decent looking outfit...

[Vrock]

It depends what type of player England wants at the top of the order and really that depends on what role Trescothick will play.

If Tresco is going to play his naturally aggressive game (which IMO he should) then a perfect candidate to partner him would be Ed Joyce. A very solid player at the top of an innings and someone I reckon would still be in the side had he not got injured against SL in the Twenty20 match.

If Tresco wants to play his dibbly dabbly role (or so it appears to be) then Mal Loye would be perfect at the top with him. He can really up the run rate and is a proven campaigner (at domestic level anyway).

I would always have Ian Bell at number three with KP at four, Strauss can then float about depending how things work out.

[Collyisamackem]

Trescothick is by far at his best attacking in ODIs, but his opening partner also needs to be acapble of attacking cricket, so I'd favour Joyce. I was a bit harsh on Bell early in yesterday's game without good reason, as he is an ideal stabiliser at three and acccumulates well - a Dravid-like ODI performance, whilst showing glimpses of an ability to really take a bowler on when his eye is in, a la Afridi yesterday. I'm thinking of this as a line-up for the next game, with Rikki Clarke a long, long way from the ground (preferably in Dubai or something, tell him he needs a holiday), though Gough needs to bowl better first up:

Trescothick
Joyce
Bell
KP
Strauss*
Collingwood
Dalrymple
Read+
Gough
Broad
Mahmood (The others all showed far more composure and ability for the number 8 spot, Saj is a walking wicket for me)

[Speedboy Salesman]

Did anybody else think Bell was OK right at the top?

[darksideofthemoon]

1 Loye
2 Flintoff
3 Trescothick
4 Cook
5 Pietersen
6 Collingwood
7 Dalrymple
8 Read
9 Broad
10 Plunkett
11 Anderson

[Trescothick]

Originally Posted by darksideofthemoon

1 Loye
2 Flintoff
3 Trescothick
4 Cook
...
10 Plunkett
11 Anderson

Controversial choices there mate... Infact, so much so that let me put together my controversial team:

Tresco
Solanki
Blackwell
Pietersen
Shah
Flintoff
Collingwood
Read
Harmison
Mahmood
Broad


Now that has some fire power to it that does... I honestly believe it would probably work as well.. Firing opening partnership and if a wicket falls they can both play sensibly and allow the others to take over

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Rachael

1. Tresco
2. Yardy
3. Joyce / Strauss / Vaughan / Bell
4. Pietersen
5. Flintoff
6. Collingwood
7. Dalrymple
8. Read
9. Giles / Blackwell / Broad / Plunkett
10. S. Jones / Mahmood / Harmison
11. Anderson

That's a pretty decent looking outfit...

It is Rachael - but we come back to a perenial problem - can England afford to play Flintoff any more in one day games?.
I posted a thread on the Eng/TMS forum not sure where Flintoff himself is saying he expects his ankle to bother him for the rest of his career, Flintoff injury .

Could we not play Dimitri Mascarenhas in place of Flintoff - leaving Flintoff free to concentrate on Test cricket, and allow his ankle rest in between Test series.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Ernest

It is Rachael - but we come back to a perenial problem - can England afford to play Flintoff any more in one day games

Can they afford to play him Test cricket? They can manage without him in that form of the game... but they can't in pyjama cricket.

Flintoff at 7 in the Test side (with Read at 8) is better than Read at 7 in the Test side... but the Test side is now looking good with three specialist seamers and a dependable, frontline spinner... but the ODI side needs five bowlers no matter what happens... and Flintoff has no equal in that role.

[Ernest]

I think you will find with respect to Pakistan that Australia will be a far sterner test than Pakistan.

I can't see Flintoff captain of the England Test side wanting to give that up, and I can't see any of Englands present bowlers as good as Flintoff.

Another fact is that the England one day side is so poor - that even with Flintoff I can't ever seee them winning a one day game in the medium term.
Mahmood is a good up and coming player - but no Flintoff.
Plunkett the same - one day maybe - but no Flintoff yet.
Anderson is prone to injury
Hoggard is looking jaded - he needs a rest
Broad will need to build up some pace - then we may see a different sort of England bowler (Mike Hendrick)

All in all Flintoff is wasted in a rubbish England one day set up, England would not have won the Ashes last year without Flintoff, I think the same applies in 2006.

Flintoff of course will play in ODIs - never mind his injury, lets have the money - that's what it will boil down to IMO.
If Flintoff was not available - I would go every time for your sort of team, but players like Botham-Flintoff and Dev only come once in a generation.