England have a dilemma or two, or even three.

[flanflinger]

Mr Hutt....

5 Bowlers does not mean a huge tail when one of those bowlers in Flintoff. Most English fans had assumed that 5 bowlers was the plan, our debate was who was the fifth - Mahmood, Anderson, Giles/Panesar...

If Flintoff is not fit to bowl a decent quota (and there are three warm up games to go for him to get some overs under his belt)

If Flintoff is fit, it seems to me the plan would have been for him to bat at 7, but as we won the Ashes last time with him at 6 and five bowlers, I for one am not bothered if we have to go down that route again!!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

If Flintoff is fit, it seems to me the plan would have been for him to bat at 7, but as we won the Ashes last time with him at 6 and five bowlers, I for one am not bothered if we have to go down that route again!!

FF - Fletcher will not have Flintoff batting at 7 again - when over the last 2-1/2 years he has outperformed most of the specialist batsmen.

IMO there has been no plan to bat Flintoff at 7, Rachael puts him there in her teams, but they don't take the field.

Batting at 7 he was horrible, he just thrashed at every delivery, he has to batting with the tail, that's was why he went up to 6 in the first place.

Peter Willey suffered that fate also, always stuck with the tail, when really he was good enough to bat at 5.

[flanflinger]

Ok Ern so explain this.... Fletcher (not Rachael or me or Mr Hutt) talked about if Flintoff was fit playing 4 bowlers,

Originally Posted by Fletcher

If we were confident of him getting through a lot of overs, we could probably look at (playing) four (bowlers), but with Flintoff not bowling many, we've got to go in with five bowlers.

that would probably mean Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard and Panesar (Giles)... this would allow them to play Cook, Bell and Collingwood..

If so would Flintoff come in before Collingwood/Bell? I doubt it, therefore he must be saying the Flintoff would be coming in at 7?

As it is, it looks likely that Flintoff may not be fully fit to bowl his full quota, in which case he will be in at 6 with one of Bell, Collingwood or Cook missing out...

Gilchrist comes in at 7 and seems to have no problems creating havoc, or rescuing the team from difficulty?

[Mr Hutt]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Mr Hutt....

5 Bowlers does not mean a huge tail when one of those bowlers in Flintoff. Most English fans had assumed that 5 bowlers was the plan, our debate was who was the fifth - Mahmood, Anderson, Giles/Panesar...

If Flintoff is not fit to bowl a decent quota (and there are three warm up games to go for him to get some overs under his belt)

If Flintoff is fit, it seems to me the plan would have been for him to bat at 7, but as we won the Ashes last time with him at 6 and five bowlers, I for one am not bothered if we have to go down that route again!!

Oh.. well i stand corrected then

i thought you guys were not bowling flintoff so i thought whats the point of him playing and taking out cook or collingwood.. me thinx i need to go back and read again lol sorry

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Ok Ern so explain this.... Fletcher (not Rachael or me or Mr Hutt) talked about if Flintoff was fit playing 4 bowlers, that would probably mean Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard and Panesar (Giles)... this would allow them to play Cook, Bell and Collingwood

I doubt England would pack their side with batsmen, that ploy has never worked in all the years I have seen it tried.

Originally Posted by flanflinger

If so would Flintoff come in before Collingwood/Bell?

If England did go down this road - I think Flintoff would probably play in front of Collingwood, Colly is not that experienced, but is capable of holding the tail with players like Mahmood and Hoggard better than Flintoff could.

Really though I think what is reported about what Fletcher is saying should carry a health warning, it's at this satge little more than propaganda.
If Flintoff can't bowl then I reckon he won't play, if he does play I think he will be fit to shoulder his part, you can't build a team round an injured player

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Gilchrist comes in at 7 and seems to have no problems creating havoc, or rescuing the team from difficulty?

That's right - but Gilchrist has a better tail to stick at the other end than does Flintoff, Lee and Warne are no dummies as England nearly found to their cost in 2005.

[flanflinger]

Ern,

I agree with you that I would prefer 5 bowlers and Flintoff at 6...and it may be that Fletcher is playing a few mind games.. but at the same time I can understand why 4 bowlers would come into the equation. It's what they used this summer, and this tour Flintoff is possibly available, so it needs to be considered.

And if it is, I would like to see Freddie in at 7, rather than coming in before Collingwood, but as you quite rightly pointed out Flintoff might come in before Colly (as he did at the Oval in 2005 http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/20...12SEP2005.html) but as Colly played at 5 all summer, and has done well, it would make more sense to leave him there...IMHO..

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/engla...ch/225258.html

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

but at the same time I can understand why 4 bowlers would come into the equation. It's what they used this summer, and this tour Flintoff is possibly available, so it needs to be considered.

I don't understand the logic in this, why should playing 4 bowlers be considered this tour because Flintoff is available? The sole reason they used 4 bowlers over the summer was because Flintoff WAS NOT available, and had to rebalance the side without him.

I just cannot understand so many peoples views that England should be looking at playing only 4 bowlers against one of the strongest batting lineups in world cricket in their own back yard on their own pitches in scorching heat.

I just don't understand it!

[greg]

Basically because after Harmison,Hoggard,Flintoff and Panesar we haven't got anybody else who is reliable enough to be a 5th bowler so the extra batting appeals.