Which wicketkeeper should play in the upcoming ashes?

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

Let's not waste time with 30 somethings who aren't quite there yet.

Over the years I have changed sides on this debate, initally prefering Read, but the fact was that he was awful with the bat and had to go. Jones would have been the answer, as he is a better batter, but the fact is that he has not delivered over the last few series, and so had to go!! His average peaked at 64, but since his only hundred has dropped to just 25!! Well you may as well have Chris Read if you are going to have a keeper averaging less than 30!!

http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?s...lds= viewtype

I am with Notts on this one, Jones at 30 should be performing, and so if Read does not hold down his place this winter my thoughts we would Davies, at 20, would be a better long term bet...

[feverpitch]

By a whisker, I would go for Jones.

Here's the piece I wrote on my blog (third-umpire) about the debate:

Who will be England’s keeper come Brisbane?

Chris Read’s three impressive innings for England at the back end of last summer appeared to settle matters once and for all; he, rather than 2005 Ashes winner Geraint Jones, would take to the field for the First Test. But then along came the ICC Champions Trophy.

Three disastrous innings later, including a second-ball duck against Australia and humiliation at the hands of Dwayne Bravo’s slower ball, and Read may just have played himself out of the Test team. Equally significantly, Read’s keeping evoked memories of Jones circa 2004. Jones, himself a pundit for Sky TV, was perhaps England’s chief beneficiary from the tournament.

Jones, lest we forget, performed simply atrociously in his last nine games, scoring only one fifty. Though his glovework was improving steadily, he was palpably not scoring an acceptable number of runs; and, as such, he deserved to be dropped.

It looks increasingly likely England will employ four specialist bowlers in addition to Andrew Flintoff. One of the two, therefore must bat at number seven. Read at number seven remains decidedly unconvincing; though he scored a vital 55 against Pakistan in the Third Test, he enjoyed considerable luck; in the Champions Trophy, he looked largely out of his depth. Can he handle Shane Warne? Is he good enough to handle either the metronome-like accuracy of Glenn McGrath or Brett Lee’s fusion of short-pitched bowling and yorkers?

Of course, we don’t know the answer to either question, even if his performances in India suggested the negative. Jones, however, has played two fantastic innings against Australia in the past, scoring 85 at Trent Bridge in the Fourth Test and 71 in the Natwest Final last summer; the latter constituted over a third of England’s runs. Clearly, his best is better than Read’s best.

Call me fickle, but the affection I developed for Read while watching him score a peerless 150* for England A against Pakistan has slowly dwindled. Jones’ recent batting performances for England have been diabolical; but he could benefit from a few months out of the international scene and the chance to escape the relentless grind of international cricket. Geraint Jones has been relatively successful against Australia; whether it is rational or otherwise, I would prefer to see him walking out down under. I suspect the inherent Jonesite Duncan Fletcher will think the same.

[Collyisamackem]

If he has the experience and shows the form with the bat, then why not? We have enough young players in our side and would welcome an experienced player. Besides, Read isn't a spring chicken either. Jones deserves at least the next year or two, not simply being discarded after being dropped once and never given a second chance if he plays well enough. If he broke back into the side he could easily have 4-5 years of international cricket left in him.

I might as well take my head to a brick wall about ability and form, RBLC, poor form (for months or otherwise) does not mask ability. Jones' problem has been inconsistency and not ability.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Collyisamackem

If he has the experience and shows the form with the bat, then why not?

Since being dropped he has not really shown any form with the bat. If one fifty in five matches is good enough then we'll always pick mediocrity. Jones was given a long spell. Should he get another chance and go on for a few years it is likely he'll be keeping Davies out of the side. And let's be honest, do we really believe that Jones will average more than 30 for any lengthy period of time? Because since his first summer he really hasn't shown it!

[Collyisamackem]

Well, I do. Call it blind faith if you will but I do - I did say "if he shows form", not "now that he has", as his form at the end of last season wasn't the best despite it improving in the later games. Davies may well be the answer in a couple of years but he hasn't been tested at international level at all - wait until he has played some A team games or tour matches against international opposition first!

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

Should he get another chance and go on for a few years it is likely he'll be keeping Davies out of the side. And let's be honest, do we really believe that Jones will average more than 30 for any lengthy period of time? Because since his first summer he really hasn't shown it!

May I ask how much of Steven Davies' batting and keeping you've seen to formulate the opinion that Jones will likely keep him out of the side?

You criticise Jones for many things, yet you don't seem to do so consistently. Jones had one long spell in the England side and was dropped, how many chances has Chris Read now had to prove his ability and at what point do you say enough is enough? You also seem to ignore that Jones' average in ODI's is considerably more than Reads and his last 10 game average is a shade under 30, what's Chris Reads? (It's about 11 since he's been back in the ODI side if my memory serves me correctly) Do you think thats good enough?

Chris Read is dining out on some fortuitous scratchy runs made against a second string Pakistani attack - those runs will only get him so far. In one sense I actually do hope Read plays in the Ashes series - all 5 Tests, because I have a sneaky feeling that the wicket keeper debate will be well and trully sorted out by the end of the series and the incumbent will not be Chris Read.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

In one sense I actually do hope Read plays in the Ashes series - all 5 Tests, because I have a sneaky feeling that the wicket keeper debate will be well and trully sorted out by the end of the series and the incumbent will not be Chris Read.

The keeping debate will rage long after the Ashes. Especially so as England will have a new manager come next summer after we've been beaten in the Ashes and disgraced in the World Cup.

Jones is in and nas done nothing to deserve a recall. 13 not out on Friday and as scratchy a 13 as you'll see from a so-called batsman (something no Read "supporter" has claimed that Read is).

[greg]

If we lose the ashes then the Read/Jones debate will certainly be the major talking point.

For the record i think Read's extra ability with the gloves outweighs the supposed extra runs that Jones will get as Read has certainly improved as a batsman in his time out of the side.

[flanflinger]

I woke up this morning shocked and angry at the news that Fletcher (who on the whole I have agreed with) has dropped Read at the first opportunity based on an average ODI series!!

It is a terrible decsison, and Graveney, who put his neck on the line this summer by dropping Read, must be fuming!! My major fear now is that the will go into the Ashes with Giles as the only spinner and we will be kissing the Ashes goodbye. The only thing I do agree with is his view that Anderson is ahaed of Mahmood.

I am now convinced that unless Fletcher does something miraculous this winter, that he should go!!

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ausve...ry/267552.html

[Ernest]

Scott,

Read was was dropped in the West Indies after only a few Test matches under his belt.

Jones came in and scored well against second rate attacks, but his form deteriated to the point when Fletcher had no other choice but to give Read another chance.

Well being that neither Read or jones are not reliable batsmen, then Read should kep his place on his superior glovework.

If Read has been dropped because of recent form with the bat - then Fletcher should also drop FLINTOFF - PIETERSEN and others also.

What really wrankles is that Fletcher is such a poor manager that he did not even wait to see how Read played inn the current natch against NSW's.

And the England players won the Ashes in 2005 - NOT Fletcher, sinse then moral has plumited.

I have nothing personal against Jones - but his two recalled have been bizzare - first on tour in the West Indies, and second in this current game against NSW's when Read has yet to come in and bat, how with this news is Read supposed to concentrate?.
Dropping a player in the middle of a match LOL.

EDIT: I do agree that Jones should be in the England one day side.

Also Fletcher should make his mind up, his idiotonics like this is bound to spark new Read/Jones debates again, and of them all - this is the most justified IMO.