Giles v.s Panesar

[SixandOut]

There's nothing to lose now. Might as well play Panesar.

My only fear though is that with SO MUCH hype over how bad Giles is and how Monty is our saviour, that he might not be able to handle the pressure.

[Speedboy Salesman]

In Panesar's defence, he can't be worse than Giles has been.

[pie_chucker]

I agree Monty all the way!

In the second test Giles bowled without threatening to take a wicket nor did he bowl particulary economically. He dropped an important catch and got a duck when the pressure was on. Monty could do no worse, but a hell of a lot better.

[Quagmire]

How can Fletcher say that he is the best finger spinner in the world then not play him? (Fletcher must be excluding Muralitharan, H. Singh, Vettori and Giles)

[Speedboy Salesman]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

I agree Monty all the way!

In the second test Giles bowled without threatening to take a wicket nor did he bowl particulary economically. He dropped an important catch and got a duck when the pressure was on. Monty could do no worse, but a hell of a lot better.

To add the anti-Giles sentiment you forgot = batting was not his forte

[Richard Jenkins]

The person with the second most text experience in the current England squad? A certain A Giles. Flintoff debuted in the same match (or was it the same series?) Giles needs to be talking to the captain and vice captain and sharing his cricket tactics.

Giles has played in 54 tests and Flintoff in 64
Giles best test figures are 5 for 57
I'd play two spinners in any test side (although one could be a part timer)

I think all this pressure for Panisar could badly backfire. Have we learned nothing from the Trescothic affair?

At the moment Cook looks more like a number 3 than an opener and that's what i'd concentrate on now, the batting and not the bowling. We haven't got the attack to bowl out the aussies twice in 5 days (unless they all fire on all cylinders)so we need to bat, bat and bat when we win the toss. If we bat for 3 days it gives us a chance. The first innings in the second test was excellent but "NEVER declare under 600".

The batsmen lost us that test.

England cant win the ashes now unless we make a plan of attack for every australian player and set the fields for it. Rememeber the shocker of a tour that Gilchrist had in England? That was planned.

Three tests remain and England must win 2 and draw one to retain the ashes. The next test is at the W.A.C.A. Ground, Perth
That's a fast hard track.. If we win the toss and bat we'll have brett lee and mcgrath et all throwing it down. i f we bowl we'll have to hope that harmison pulls his socks up. So not really a spinners paradise there then.

then if we draw or win melbourne and sydney await.

melbourne breaks up and wears (or has it changed?)

Sydney is the spinners paradise, and perhaps we'll see Monty here when theres nothing to play for.

[Speedboy Salesman]

Good Post Mr.Jenkins, and your ground knowledge in Aus, but the problem is with Giles, his experience hasn't added to his batting prowess (which Fletcher wanted), he dropped Ponting (which the press will savage - "Giles drops the Ashes" springs to mind) and for his bowling he hasn't taken 5 wicket hauls. If he bowled to "tie up an end" he failed in that as well, bowling over after over of crap and the Australians played him with ease. Panesar for me.

[Monty 4 PM]

In response to your post Mr Jenkins I find a number of your points strange...

1) So Giles is 2nd in experience? He's also past his best, hasnt bowled for a year and is clearly the 2nd best spinner in our team...although KP is starting to run him close for the no.2 spot! In regards to advise Flintoff should be consulting with his vice captain Strauss, who has shown his qualities in that area.

2) Our attack cant take 20 wickets because its the WRONG attack...period...Giles and Andersen were not only no threat but didnt do there jobs in creating pressure on the batsmen. Monty and Mahmood are more attacking options that cant do any worse in conceding runs.
If you dont think any attack of ours can take 20 Aus wickets then whats the point of us being there? You do realise you have to take 20 to win dont you? Whats the point of concentrating on the batting if you cant bowl the other side out?

3) To say that Adelaide was the batsmens fault entirely is absurd. Was it their fault they racked up 551 in the first innings or that they got some questionable desicionsin the 2nd, or was it their fault that the wrong bowling attack was picked enabling Aus to get to 513, or that Giles dropped Ponting or that we had effectively a 2 man bowling attack applying no pressure in the 2nd innings? Bowers win matches...try refering back to the Ashes of 2005 for the evidence.

This whole "concentratye on our batting" is the kind of Duncan Fletcher-esq thinking that has got us into this mess. You are right that there will now be huge pressure on MP IF our stick-in-the-mud coach is brave enough to lose face and play him, but that is only Fletchers fault and is part of the pressure of international sport.

[Richard Jenkins]

[quote=Monty 4 PM ]In response to your post Mr Jenkins I find a number of your points strange...

1) So Giles is 2nd in experience? He's also past his best, hasnt bowled for a year and is clearly the 2nd best spinner in our team...although KP is starting to run him close for the no.2 spot! In regards to advise Flintoff should be consulting with his vice captain Strauss, who has shown his qualities in that area.

He's in the team for a reason.(batting and bowling) He's also been in an ashes wiining squad.

2) Our attack cant take 20 wickets because its the WRONG attack...period...Giles and Andersen were not only no threat but didnt do there jobs in creating pressure on the batsmen. Monty and Mahmood are more attacking options that cant do any worse in conceding runs.

mamood would get walloped to the four winds or bowl all over the place.

If you dont think any attack of ours can take 20 Aus wickets then whats the point of us being there? You do realise you have to take 20 to win dont you? Whats the point of concentrating on the batting if you cant bowl the other side out?

never said they couldn't take 20 wickets period.I said (well read it )

3) To say that Adelaide was the batsmens fault entirely is absurd.
Really? Peterson lost the plot and threw away his wicket. they only had to bat out the day and they couldn't even do that .
Bowers win matches...

Bowlers do win matches. but warne only span out the rough. Thats why its the batsmen's fault

[Richard Jenkins]

The press savaged Peterson last time for the very same reasons and we won the ashes.


the aussies must be loving it cos they certainly got the supporters rattled, if not the players