Duncan Fletcher: Lose the Ashes and Lose Your Job?

[Oliver]

If we had a proper middle-order instead of a bunch of hit-and-miss guys and some allrounders, I don't think Flintoff would by so much of a problem.

Collingwood jibes aside; Flintoff should not be captain. Botham shouldn't've been captain either.
Botham was bright enough to stand aside when it all went pear shaped.
We are constantly told how bright Flintoff is. Why does he not stand aside?
Probably something to do with Vaughan waiting in the wings.

If he would only piff off back home, maybe the lads could do something.

[Aussie-Yank]

I see the majority wants the head of Fletcher, but I really do not see much in the way of the replacement for him.

I guess what I am saying is that there is strong indication of him making some major errors - but you need someone better than him if you are going to axe him.

So I guess you really need to consider the competition first and the only names I see coming up in this thread are Woolmer and Moody. So would you axe him for one of These?

[greg]

Yes i would as he has got into the old stagers comfort zone of just picking his boys that did well previously regardless of fitness and form.It will be fine next summer at home as the whole panel will have a say but come next winter we could see a repeat of this debacle with Fletcher picking the wrong team simply because he is pigheaded.

[Seamer]

Why are you putting this whole debacle on Fletchers head. From what i have gathered, it was Flintoff who pushed for Giles, Anderson and Jones. I think you can blame Flintoff for losing the Ashes. His bowling has been average, batting terrible, captaincy terrible and team selection terrible.
The question is, will England drop Flintoff and does England have a decent replacement for him.

[greg]

Originally Posted by Seamer

The question is, will England drop Flintoff and does England have a decent replacement for him.

No need to drop him,he was short of matches and a poor series was always likely.Make Strauss captain and send Freddie back to the ranks where he was at his best previously.

As for a replacement,no we haven't got one.The nearest thing to an allrounder we have is Adil Rashid a teenage leggie at Yorkshire but he is very raw at the moment.

[John]

Originally Posted by Seamer

Why are you putting this whole debacle on Fletchers head. From what i have gathered, it was Flintoff who pushed for Giles, Anderson and Jones. I think you can blame Flintoff for losing the Ashes. His bowling has been average, batting terrible, captaincy terrible and team selection terrible.

You don't understand the rules Seamer. Fletcher is to blame for everything and Flintoff well he has done everything right.
Being serious Fletcher has made a number a number of mistakes of varying degrees. I am not sure how much better judgement he could of showed over Tresco.
Panesar obviously he takes a fair amount of the blame.
Flintoff should never of be captain. He probably was scared of the media reaction if he had gone for Strauss. Lack of backbone.
Is he to blame for picking Jones. Yes but in my book not a huge mistake. But a mistake.

He can't be blamed for Harmison's lack of form or Flintoff's.
The fact is they were playing the best side in the world on their home patch and it was always going to be difficult unless everyone was on form.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Oliver

If we had a proper middle-order instead of a bunch of hit-and-miss guys and some allrounders, I don't think Flintoff would by so much of a problem.

The middle order is going in to bat far to early, it's the top order that's failing.

Originally Posted by Oliver

Collingwood jibes aside; Flintoff should not be captain. Botham shouldn't've been captain either.
Botham was bright enough to stand aside when it all went pear shaped.
We are constantly told how bright Flintoff is. Why does he not stand aside?

Two different people - Botham was a players captain, he was also to jolly with the oppostion, in particular the West Indies, where his mate Viv Ruchards was captain or played, Flintoff is not like that.

Botham was not bright enough as you put it to stand aside, in the Ashes series after a draw as Lords, he was forced to resign, also he had a longer go that Flintoff with a more settled team, who just were not good enough.

Who does Flintoff make way for if he jacks it in after a very short spell?.

The common answer is Strauss, well he can't even get any runs, with this team no-ine could do any better or worse than Flintoff.
Probably something to do with Vaughan waiting in the wings.

The fact is that Australia are streets ahead of any X1 England can field out of this squad, the blame lies back in England when the selectors to a risk with this squad.

Trescothick - with foresight should not have gone.
Giles - with both foresight and hindsight should not have gone
Flintoff - he should not have played in such an important series, he has not played much cricket at all - he looks jaded.
Hoggard - was he not injured?.
Harmison - there was always doubt about his state of mind.

Getting beat in one thing, Australia have shown they are a class above anything in this England squad, it's the way they have been beat, no spirit I bet it's a misserable England dressing room.

[Collyisamackem]

I've closed the poll as I think the collective opinion on Fletcher is now framed. He has lost it as coach and will lose the Ashes barring a total miracle, and should go after the tour is over. We're not going to pull up trees with or without a coach in the World Cup anyway.

How can a good thing go so bad so quickly?

[greg]

Originally Posted by Collyisamackem

How can a good thing go so bad so quickly?

Pigheadedness.

[Collyisamackem]

In so much as a word can summarise things, yes, Fletcher has married his ego and can do no wrong.