Towards 2009: Should Flintoff Be Dropped?

[Collyisamackem]

I have been struggling with this for ages, our side needs to change soon, but definitely before 2009. We had a successful series against Pakistan but the worst Ashes series for 80+ years following it, featuring a sorry state of affairs in the last two tests where Flintoff and Read played as if the tail started at 6 and Sajid Mahmood played at 8 collecting three ducks (including a golden) - even Ern will know that is not a long term viable strategy. We need more batting in the side for this reason and for the added reason that our keeper will never be a Gilchrist (be it Read, Foster, Davies or whoever else), and with Vaughan coming in that does arrive but it means changes down the order. I expect if Vaughan proves his fitness then he will continue to 2009 but if he doesn't then further changes will be afoot - assuming he does figure then here we go:

What I am asking is this: Will Flintoff be able to move to 7 to be part of a four-man bowling attack that can reclaim the Ashes along with overs from some of the batsmen in this side?

Strauss, Cook, Vaughan*, Pietersen, Collingwood, Bell, Flintoff, Read+, Harmison/Anderson/Mahmood/Plunkett, Panesar, Hoggard.

...or if we do add the extra batsman at 6 should be pick this team for the time being and not regard Flintoff as being an ever-present who will perform like he has in recent years for much longer?

Strauss, Cook, Vaughan*, Pietersen, Collingwood, Bell, Read+, Mahmood/Anderson/Plunkett, Harmison, Panesar, Hoggard.

How does our side change? I need answers because I can't give them and make up my mind!

[greg]

Personally i don't think Vaughan,Flintoff and Harmison will still be international cricketers in 2009.The first 2 due to injury and Harmison will just walk away from the game to be with his family.At some point we will need to replace them but we need to let the likes of Panesar,Cook and Anderson/Mahmood cement their places first.To discard them now because they won't be around later would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Then again who knows we may have a bowling line up of Broad,Tremlett,Smith,Rashid and Panesar by then.2 and a 1/2 years is a long time away and we should concentrate on beating West Indies and India next summer first then hopefully by 2009 the side will have evolved anyway.

[Alison]

At the moment I'd probably have Flintoff as part of a 4-man bowling attack (providing he's fully fit) but I'd not like to predict what the situation may be like in 2009 - too much could happen in the meantime.

[Notts Exile]

I don't really care about 2009. I wouldn't want to be thinking about England without Freddie for the forthcoming Series against the Windies and India. If he's available and fit then he plays, preferably batting at seven and bowling a full quota of overs.

We proved during the Ashes that five bowlers is often one too many. Let's pick the best four and be done with it.

[first change]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

We proved during the Ashes that five bowlers is often one too many. Let's pick the best four and be done with it.

Good point, well made. Should Flintoff be properly fit, he should bat at seven, giving real depth to the batting.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

I think most wil agree with that plan (unless you live in lancs ) and in hindsight as we were at the time defending the ashes, that how we should have started the series.

[Speedboy Salesman]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

Let's pick the best four and be done with it.

Who would be your best four bowlers?

[first change]

Originally Posted by Speedboy Salesman

Who would be your best four bowlers?

Fitness allowing - Hoggard, Jones, Flintoff, Panesar. Ideally leaving Harmison out and telling him to prove that he wants to play for England or forget about it. Sadly, Simon Jones won't be fit for Test cricket by May (will he?).

[Speedboy Salesman]

That's the trick. I still think if we're playing in England, Harmison is a still a force. Abroad, he's crap with moments of goodness. If Simon Jones does back fit as ever, I would replace Harmison with Jones as our fastest bowler.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Speedboy Salesman

That's the trick. I still think if we're playing in England, Harmison is a still a force. Abroad, he's crap with moments of goodness. If Simon Jones does back fit as ever, I would replace Harmison with Jones as our fastest bowler.

Not so sure. Ever since the West Indies arrived in England 2004, I can only think of 3 worthwhile performances over the past 3 years at home.

Oval vs. West Indies
Lords vs. Australia
Old Trafford vs. Pakistan

**** off back to your beloved Ashington, Steve, is what I say!