New England Vice-Captain?

[Nostromo]

I know that this sounds very unconvincing, but to me Collingwood looks like he has the right air about him to be England's captain in the near future; somehow, Strauss doesn't. Collingwood comes across as someone with quiet determination, the desire to fight on even when the chips are down. There is a certain uncertainity about the Strauss's personality which makes me doubt whether he will handle the responsibility in the long term. It is just a feeling, an intuition, if you like.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by adamberry

The thought of making someone captain just because they have tactical nous, but no consistancy,

The only tactical nous Adams needs is to decide when he bring Mushie on... if Adams plays, you then need to find a method of getting Mushtaq to qualify for England.

There is another time we called in a succesful County Captain, to do the job, with little or no Test experience - Chris Cowdrey

http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?s...lds=view type

Played the one Test, scored bugger all, got injured and lost the game by ten wickets...

[cantplaycantalk]

Just one point for me regarding England test team for the coming year, Harmisons place must be in serious threat by the potential return of S Jones and if not quite possibly by Anderson or even Plunkett both of whom have shown a lot more recently than Stevie H.

An England team of

Cook
Strauss
Vaughan
Bell
Peitersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
<Keeper>
Plunkett/Jones/Anderson
Hoggard
Panesar
Would not be a shock at all, and I doubt that Stevie H would mind at all. He is happiest at home with the family and the chance to play for Durham and be with his wife and kids during home matches would suit him.

[flanflinger]

True about Harmison but I was thinking about that and I feel that Vaughan is able to motivate Harmison in a way that Flintoff couldn't

In the 80's when Gower was captain, he would often, on Both's insistence give him "one more over". Even if Beefy was bowling badly, Gower, his good mate, would let him have it, and it would just be as bad. Friends are often not the best at motivating.

Two things for Vaughan

1. He has the ability to get Harmy to put in that extra ounce of effort (the home Ashes series he got Langer and Clarke out after Vaughan had had a word and asked for that extra ounce of effort)
2. In South Africa two years ago he flogged Harmison almost to death in one innings, he had bowled badly and it was clear he was happy to "take a blow" but Vaughan didn't let him, he was ruthless with him. Low and behold he came back a better bowler in the next series.

Vaughan gets the best out of Harmy IMO, had Vaughan been his skipper this winter I think he would have got a lot more out of him.

Where you are correct is, if Jones gets fit, then Harmy's place is very much under-pressure. That too might do him some good.

[Rachael]

The provisional side to START the summer is pretty clear: any such side is obviously subject to ammendment depending on injuries and early season form... but Harmison should be penned in until others (basically Jones or Anderson, as Plunkett still lacks 1st class experience) pose a challenge.

What's rather less clear is how the side should line up in Sri Lanka next winter in conditions that will mean a second frontline spinner is essential (as even a journeyman spinner will offer more to the side than all but a truly exceptional seamer).

Forget the identity of the spinner (always a distraction): how should the spinner be accomodated? Drop a specialist seamer (straight swop with Harmison)? Drop an opening batsman (Strauss / Cook remain the weak links against spin) and move Flintoff to 6?

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Yes but Ern, where you have this 100% wrong is that Brearley was new to the team and too the Captaincy.

Strange me forgeting that, however I still think England did not have experienced cover for Trescothick and Harmison in the 2006 Ashes, really England were asking a lot off Cook-Joyce - Mahmood and Plunket.

Originally Posted by flanflinger

The only fallibility he has shown is to injury!! He has hardly played a Test since that Ashes series.. if he is fit, and in the team, Vaughan should be leading it!!

No come on ff - his form was bad for months before his injury, in fact he has had a longer run of bad form than any other England player.
That's one reason appointing Chris Adams would make little difference.

But Flintoff won't be considered for a couple of years, I think Vaughan has had his day, I do not like some of the recent antics of Vaughan - but I will admit he is as ruthless as jardine was, or Illingworth.
But the mans injured.

OK so no Chris Adams - I am sure we have a captain in the counties who could do a job - even as vice captain until Vaughan in injured again - which is certain.

Strauss is strugging for personal form, it would be silly to appoint a dropped player as captain, or vice captain.

Just to go back to England inexperience - England have been missing Simon Jones, Trescothick, Harmison (in effect) Vaughan and Pietersen was injured at one point.

A lot of experience missing there - England need some old handers to bring on the youngsters (Australia style) - and a new captain would mean new ideas.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

A lot of experience missing there - England need some old handers to bring on the youngsters (Australia style) - and a new captain would mean new ideas.

Yes they do lack Plus 30's players, but if Bell, Cook, Bopara, Broad, Davies, Plunkett etc are all playing regularly over the next two-three years, then by the time the Aussies arrive they will be experienced.

As I recall, recent Australia style has not been to mix many youngsters in the team. Clarke is the only guy under 26*!! I would prefer England's long term approach to their short-termism...

*And he is nearly 27!!

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

I think Vaughan has had his day, I do not like some of the recent antics of Vaughan - but I will admit he is as ruthless as jardine was, or Illingworth.
But the mans injured.

Yet you would still have him in the team, despite the fact that he has apparntly shown little form with the bat. Just not as Captain, when he is possibly up there with Fleming as one of the candidates for best International Captain.

In his place you would bring in "anyone" else who might be able to Captain a County side, but has no experince at leading at Test level!!

As far as I can see, for a man who is injured, he seems to be batting and fielding, ok so there is a chance that the old injuries may come back, but i he is playing, then he cannot be injured?

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Yet you would still have him in the team, despite the fact that he has apparntly shown little form with the bat. Just not as Captain, when he is possibly up there with Fleming as one of the candidates for best International Captain.

Yes but his poor form has not been apparnt - it's been a fact.

Yes I would give him a chance as a PLAYER, but not as captain for three reasons.

One I think after the Ashes victory in 2005, I don't think he is as hungry as a captain, which IMO is not surprising.

If he is released from the burden of being captain - his for may well return, he was #1 batsman in the world at one stage.

I think he man magagement stinks, I thought so in the West Indies in 2004, and again in the West Indies 2006.07.

Back to the team - even Vaughan was made to look very ordinary against New Zealand, and his captaincy was worse still against Canada - he seemed to have no idea that run rate mattered.

However it shown when captaining this inexperienced and depleted team, he fairs no better than anone else.

Not his fault - it was the selection team headed by David Graveney.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

I think he man magagement stinks, I thought so in the West Indies in 2004, and again in the West Indies 2006.07.

Odd that considering just after the Ashes 05, it was the way that he handled people that was praised by the players...

I guess you have read Flintoff's biography

Originally Posted by Flintoff (in being freddie)

Of course the hardest part of being captain is telling friends they are out of order or even dropping them. This is a tough thing to do and I have been impressed with the way Michael Vaughan has handled that side of things

Originally Posted by Flintoff (in being freddie)

He (Vaughan) was very relaxed on and off the pitch even then, and encouraged people to enjoy their Cricket