New England Vice-Captain?

[Ernest]

Well Flintoff praises everbody.
Ask Chris Read what he thinks of Vaughan back in 2004 - I doubt he will agree with Flintoff.

Paul Collinwood I believe as made himself available as vice captain click here .

One of the players not caught up in the boozy antics after the New Zealand defeat was Paul Collingwood and he has already offered himself as a replacement vice-captain, a job that Flintoff has lost as part of the disciplinary action taken by coach Duncan Fletcher.

[omair]

Pietersen
Good Choice

[adamberry]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

There is another time we called in a succesful County Captain, to do the job, with little or no Test experience - Chris Cowdrey

I beg your pardon?!? Chris Cowdrey - successful? The only reason England picked him was because Kent were near the top of the County Championship... the only time in his six year tenure as captain he got us anywhere near that high!

Originally Posted by Ernest

I am sure we have a captain in the counties who could do a job - even as vice captain until Vaughan in injured again - which is certain.

Apart from Rob Key, there isn't really anyone batting wise. Jeremy Snape has ODI experience (limited though), and Jon Lewis would be a bowling option. And how many people would agree with any of those three being selected, let alone vice-captain?

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by adamberry

Apart from Rob Key, there isn't really anyone batting wise.

Nice one adam - with all that has been going on, I had forgot about Rob key - he will do nicely.

Also I would find a place for Ed Smith, we need to give some of these defeat tainted players a rest.

I would also find a place for James Kirtley.

[adamberry]

Smith has limited captaincy experience - he's only captained the odd game when the likes of Fulton at Kent and Hutton at Middlesex weren't playing, i.e. University games. He did not convince me he had it at Test level when he made his brief foray four years ago and, if anything, he convinces me less now.

And I really should stop pushing Kent players forward for England, we've got a small enough squad as it is!

ps. I have no objections to Kirtley. We need some more fast bowling talent!

[pie_chucker]

Wasnt Cowdrey (Chris) picked because of his name?

The team that Rachael posted (a while back) will be the team that starts next season, injuries permitting.

I wonder why we keep mentioning people like Kirtley when it comes to bowlers. Harmison, Hoggard, S.Jones, Plunkett, Mahmood, Anderson, Lewis, Broad, Tremlett and Onions are rightly considered above Kirtley in the pecking order. I will probably have also missed a few other bowlers from that list .

Harmison will almost certainly start next summer. He's the only bowler we have who can do that particular job and we have to remember he was no where near fit for the ashes and shouldnt have played in the first 2 tests.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by adamberry

ps. I have no objections to Kirtley. We need some more fast bowling talent!

Yes that's true - but look at the batting in Australia (I am talking about proper cricket now), England could not put a score together.

Assuming Trescothick and Vaughan are finished England need an experienced opener to bat with Cook/Joyce, I have nothing against Strauss at all - except that he looked lost when Tresco went home.

England need a reliable #3, England needed a reliable #3 when I was a lad - even Gower was not suited there.

I think Cook opening with key, maybe key as captain.
Ed Smith or A N other at 3.

Pietersen at #4, keep him away from Flintoff, they don't gel.

Collingwood at #5, maybe as captain, but I would rather have an outsider.

Flintoff at #6, maybe captain when he is undisgraced.

Read at #7, there is IMO no other option.

Hoggard at #8.

Panesar at #9

Harmison at #10

Kirtley at #11

In reserve to learn the trade ,
Mahmood
Joyce
Plunkett.

[pie_chucker]

But Ed Smith is no better than the likes of Bell.

And Kirtley is a league inferior to all of the bowlers in my last post, do we really want a trundler in the team, Colly could do that job .

However I agree that our no3 position is still not solved, we are too vulnerable up top.

[adamberry]

Originally Posted by Ernest

I think Cook opening with key, maybe key as captain.
Ed Smith or A N other at 3.

I'd personally stick Cook in at 3 - at least for now, and in an ideal world. Against the Australians he did look particularly vulnerable against the new ball, (although so did Strauss) so maybe Cook at three would work a little better for the moment.

Originally Posted by Ernest

Pietersen at #4, keep him away from Flintoff, they don't gel.

Agreed, if we put KP any lower, he invariably has to bat with the tail.

Originally Posted by Ernest

Hoggard at #8. Panesar at #9. Harmison at #10. Kirtley at #11

Shuffle the batting order about, for Hoggy's average he should not be batting at 8 IMO. Shift Monty and Harmison up a place each and put Hoggard at 10/11, depending on who has the final seamer's spot, be that Mahmood, Plunkett or any of the young guns.

[adamberry]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

But Ed Smith is no better than the likes of Bell.

As I said three posts earlier, Smith just doesn't convince me... unlike Bell, who I feel should in time become a mainstay in the side. Ed Smith is overrated by some distance IMO.