Who will be dropped for the first test of the summer?

[Younis Khan #1]

Originally Posted by Rachael

If you had a three way tournament of veterans, a current 1st Xi and prospects I suspect the veterans would win... and I suspect they would have done at most times in the last 20 years (and not just in cricket: English soccer's most talented player remains the retired Scholes... and for several years after retiring / being replaced, the likes of Sheringham and Shearer consistently out-performed the young pretenders).

Anyway... at the end of last season you could have picked the following Veterans XI:

Butcher - 1465 runs at 58.60
Knight - 1070 runs at 36.89 (div 1)
Hick - 1023 runs at 48.71
Ramps - 2278 runs at 103.54
Crawley - 1737 runs at 66.80 (div 1)
Nixon - 895 runs at 59.66
Chapple - 580 runs at 32.22, 41 wickets at 27.41 (div 1)
Silverwood - 63 wickets at 25.25 (div 1)
Sidebottom - 50 wickets at 26.14 (div 1)
Lewis - 60 wickets at 21.70
Keedy - 61 wickets at 27.21

That line up would have held its own in Test OR ODI cricket!

Are you talking about international soccer? Because Scholes retired well after Shearer and sheringham.

[adamberry]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Hick - 1023 runs at 48.71
Chapple - 580 runs at 32.22, 41 wickets at 27.41 (div 1)
Sidebottom - 50 wickets at 26.14 (div 1)
[...]
That line up would have held its own in Test OR ODI cricket!

The names I've picked out are the ones I don't particularly agree with, for the following reasons:

Hick - too inconsistant, as proven in his time in the Test arena. Being a stylish and classical batsman is all well and good, but they need to be consistant just to hold down their place. Hick should always be looking over his shoulder at the next man IMO.

Chapple - not the same class as Flintoff, and is in my opinion a poor-man's Collingwood. And we know how various people on the board feel about Collingwood being in the Test arena, so what chance would Chapple ever have?

Sidebottom - the "Hoggard factor" either it swings and he gets a five-for, or it doesn't and he goes for a few. Hoggard has adapted, I don't see Sidebottom has as well. Consistancy factor again coming through.

Don't get me wrong though - the rest of the side you've picked is solid and would certainly give the current England side a run for their money. Not sure about the Australians though!

[pie_chucker]

Adding to the last post,

Silverwood - Not accurate enough for test cricket. A poor mans Anderson!

Lewis - Has already proven that he's not up to test quality. Had plenty of overs against a nervy Sri Lanka line up on a green pitch and got shown up!

[*Jonty*]

Originally Posted by Younis Khan #1

Collingwoods performance in the ashes? Other than a double century what did he do?

Easily the best fielder in the side,saved many runs against Australia,made several run-outs. what did anyone do regularly??

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Just looked at the top 20 world cup bowling averages. we have one bowler in it in fredelo. Ireland also have a bowler in it. Not sure any of the other seamers should be let near international cricket again after reading that !

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Ed Smith
Cook
Shah
Key*
Collingwood
Flintoff
Mascarenhas
Prior+
Hoggard
Salisbury/Panesar
Harmison

Terrible side

Would not have Smith, Mascarenhas and Sali near the side - would not have Key as Captain. Do not think Shah is a better pick than Vaughan or Bell. As for the keeper!

You have successfully picked a team that could lose to the West Indies!!

If we are going to pick such a weak team, I would prefer us to head down the youth route - Compton, Broad and Davies. Get a few Tests under the belt against a weak team. Don't see the value of Smith, Key and Sali getting some cheap runs/wickets.

Classic example Anthony McGrath - came in against a very weak Zimbabwe side (in place of Flintoff) picked up some runs and the odd wicket - what did it prove - only how awful Zimbabwe were and how wrong England were not to have given the berth to a good young player

http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?s...lds=viewty pe

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by acker

I thought Bell was the only player who fully survived Australia.

Acker,

For me it strikes me that you as an Aussie recognise that but some of the English fans don't see it!!

[cantplaycantalk]

Originally Posted by acker

Why did'nt withdraw when he was selected ?

Well let us guess that his mental problems constitute say manic depression. That is to say he has highs and lows. On his highs he will feel like he can conquer the world he is back to his old self and his determination not to let his illness beat him will carry him through anything. On his lows he will want to just sit in his room and cry, he will be convinced that something terrible is happening at home and feel extremely guilty that he isn't there to help his family...

Don't blame Tresco for this he may well be in no control of his condition, I do not know what is the matter with him, but I do know depression, manic depression and a few more I have seen them close up and they are debilitating for the sufferer and exausting for the family. I will warn you of something else they can affect anyone, everyone has a breaking point, a point where the accumulated stress and pressure becomes too much for them, for Trescothic it seems to have been the combination of a job which is highly pressurised, and takes him away from home added to marital difficulties and who knows what else. What I do know is that having seen and dealt with this type of thing in those very close to me, placing Trescothic back into the pressure cooker of international cricket would be doing him a great disservice, we are far better moving on to the younger generation and leaving Trescothic to bully attacks for Somerset, the days in the sunshine, the exercise and the applause and recognition of the supporters in this less pressurised environment will do him the world of good.

[cantplaycantalk]

Peiterson, Collingwood and Bell were all ok in Australia. Cook showed promise and at his age the fact that he came out of the ashes in australia a better player even if he did not dominate australian attacks is enough for me. Struass had a poor tour but our big issue was the failure of the bowlers and for that I would blame the selectors at least as much as the players. We went into the tour with far to many undercooked players and that combined with the lack of experience of the second string was crucial. We would IMO have lost anyway as Australia had learned and improved from the team that toured England, the weak second string to the Australian attack had been replaced, Warne, McGrath, Lee and Clark made a very strong first 4 bowlers and that left some leaway for an experienced youngster to come in and support them. For England had Harmison Hoggard and Flintoff all been on top form and firing, had we had Simon Jones available fit and in form and had we picked Panesar early we also would have had 4 top quality experienced bowlers and a promising youngster. The difference then would have been the poor form of some of our batsmen, the wicket keeper and the fact that Warne and McGrath are the best bowlers of their respective type to have played cricket in at least a generation.

So Australia did everything they could and were then ably assisted by injuries, poor form and poor selection on the England side.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Terrible side[...]You have successfully picked a team that could lose to the West Indies!!

I have lost patience with Vaughan - Bell - Strauss (without Trescothick), at least the side I have picked would be different, and not tainted with disaster.

Even though a better side might/could be picked, IMO it is better than the endless sides I have seen picked that have failed England this winter, words like capitulation/surrender come to mind, but these players are on most peoples team sheets.

As for the keeper my first choice Read will not get selected, I have faced that - but England need a long term alternative.

I am one of the oldest members on this board FF - and this winters performance ranks with the worst I have ever seen, THE team that keeps getting picked - this current England side is horrendus.

It is living on the Ashes win in 2005 (and even then Bell did not ring that much) - but with Trescothick and Simon Jones gone - ( and even G O Jones) - the remainder is an empty shell - batting wise.