Fletcher to quit

[greg]

My dad mentioned an interesting one to me today,he said what about John Buchanan.I did tell him there was more chance of me playing test cricket but it would be a hell of a story if they got him.

[pie_chucker]

Originally Posted by greg

My dad mentioned an interesting one to me today,he said what about John Buchanan.I did tell him there was more chance of me playing test cricket but it would be a hell of a story if they got him.

To be honest I dont think that Buchanan is that special. Any of us could have coached this Aus team and got results.

Originally Posted by Ernest

Maybe it is time for Fletcher to move on - I believe that to be right for the one day side, but who will match him in the Test arena?.

Rather than a change of coach - IMO England needed changes at the top, with the selectors Graveney and Miller going before Fletcher, it was they that selected the crocked Harmison - Giles and Trescothick, that's one of the main reasons England have done so poor.

If anyone thinks that getting rid of Fletcher, but not making real changes to the team and the selectors, then IMO they are wrong.

.

There is a lot of sense there Ern. Regarding test cricket their are no finer coaches around, regardless of who we get next he wont be any better than Fletcher regarding test cricket. Sure our ODI form is bound to improve provided we select the right team.

To be honest if everyone is fit we dont need to change the test team. Of all the bowlers mentioned none are in the same league as Hoggy, Harmy, Freddie and Jonesey (sorry).

However our ODI setup needs totally revamped and hopefully a new coach (and selection panel) may start from scratch.

[Harmy's Army]

Originally Posted by Richard Jenkins

We'll probably end up with Graham Gooch or Mike Gatting, or even worse.....Ian Botham..

Mike Gatting has been touted as a possible successor to Graveney as head of selectors.

[darksideofthemoon]

Gatting was sacked as a selector previously.

[Harmy's Army]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

However our ODI setup needs totally revamped and hopefully a new coach (and selection panel) may start from scratch.

It might actually be worth considering divorcing test and ODI at selector level.

Test selection panel = Coach + 2 test experienced selectors

ODI selection panel = Coach + 2 one-day experienced selectors

On the ODI front you could bring in the likes of Dominic Cork and Adam Hollioake on the ODI front, any two (younger?) guys who know the one day game dynamics and the present county players' potential inside out (something the present selectors clearly have no clue about if the past five years are anything to go by). Separating the two disciplines at selection level might do away with what I feel has been going on for many years - blooding test hopefuls in one-dayers.

[Harmy's Army]

Originally Posted by darksideofthemoon

Gatting was sacked as a selector previously.

Was that something to do with a barmaid? Or did that happen when he was captain?

[darksideofthemoon]

No the barmaid incident involved his sacking as captain.

In Aug 1999 Gooch and Gatting were sacked as selectors.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

To be honest I dont think that Buchanan is that special. Any of us could have coached this Aus team and got results.

That's true, with respect to Fletcher the side that won the Ashes in 2005 would have won with no coach or captain, with Harmison and Jones fit - and Flintoff and Hoggard to follow.

However to be fair to Fletcher he had a good run before the Ashes, he kept faith in Flintoff and got his pay-back, England had a fine run beating the Windies twice, South Africa away from home, and New Zealand 3-0.
But even then like years before, England had a rubbish one day side, in fact the side that faced the West Indies in 2004, were worse than this World Cup side.

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

Sure our ODI form is bound to improve provided we select the right team.[...]However our ODI setup needs totally revamped and hopefully a new coach (and selection panel) may start from scratch.

Yep I would go as far as a separate coach, and a separate selection panel, and as little cross over between Test players as possible, better if there was none IMO.

Originally Posted by Harmy's Army 136614

Was that something to do with a barmaid? Or did that happen when he was captain?

Not sure - but I think he was captain.
Whatever the ECB should kiss and make up with Gatting, with him selecting at least England will get a side with some aggression.

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by Harmy's Army

Test selection panel = Coach + 2 test experienced selectors

ODI selection panel = Coach + 2 one-day experienced selectors

I think the problem in both of these is the inclusion of Coach. I actually see no reason at all why the coach should be included as a selector, and in fact I see some good reasons why he should not be included on principle. Mostly those revolve around conflict of interest: suppose Mr X turns up for training and upsets the coach somehow: a vindictive coach could hold that against him by stopping selection for a match/series/year. That needs to be protected against. Let the coach (or coaches: I've no problem in principle with having different coaches for what are essentially two different games) develop the players and the selectors put the team together. I believe the Aussies have been doing this for a while now and cannot understand why the Poms don't. Certainly it doesn't seem to have done the Aussies any harm.

[Ernest]

You make a good point there OF - look how read suffered at the hands of the coach and captain, there should have been communication with the ECB before Read was removed, because Read was selected as first choice keeper