Panesar

[Rachael]

Panesar's display in today's match at Lords surely established for sure that Panesar is a better bowler than Harmison or Plunkett. He bowled 31 of England's 98 overs.... and after Hoggard, he's presumably the next name on the team sheet (in terms of the attack).

Note: he was that good despite not turning the ball - Simon Hughes has been on as "the analyst" and made much of just how little the ball did off the pitch.

Now.. if he'd just had a fully fit Giles (or Rashid) the other end instead of the wild and wayward Harmison.. the follow on might have been enforced by now!

[Younis Khan #1]

The windies bowlers seemed lost against him.

[Nostromo]

I am not denying that Panesar is a good bowler, but the situation has to seen in the right perspective. He is the kind of bowler whom international cricketers don't see often and so it is more than likely that they will be a bit uncertain when facing him for the first time. But soon, most top batsmen will figure him out and then the bowling figures are likely to flatten out a bit. The subcontinent has produced loads of such clever spinners who started with a bang but have not been able to keep-up the same momentum as the months and years pass. Maninder Singh, Hirwani (who took 16 wickets on his test debut, but disappeared from the international scene a few years later) Harbhajan Singh etc have all been there. Even Panesar himself promised much in his first Ashes test, but the Aussies soon got his measure and that was that. IMO, Panesar will be OK, but don't expect him to turn out to be a major world class spinner of the future.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Now.. if he'd just had a fully fit Giles (or Rashid) the other end instead of the wild and wayward Harmison.. the follow on might have been enforced by now!

Panesar did Ok, he was not that economical for a spin bowler in Test cricket with an econ rate of 3.48 - also he won't get umpires who will give him LBW decissions every time.

Having said that - he was the best bowler on show for England.

If you listened to TMS - Aggers asked Boycott "is Rashid ready to take over the all rounder spot from Flintoff", Boycott replied "no".

His reason was - and I agree was that Rashid needs at least two more seasons of county cricket behind him, and went on to say being carted all over with the likes of Hayden and Ponting would ruin his career (or words to that effect).

Chris Schofield was put in the England side to early, and that did him no favours.

I have mentioned this many times, England are not good enough to go into a Test match with just four bowlers.

[pie_chucker]

Originally Posted by Ernest

........I have mentioned this many times, England are not good enough to go into a Test match with just four bowlers.

Assuming all 4 bowlers are fit and firing you only need 4! The problem today was Hoggard got injured and after lunch Harmison totally lost his line.

Originally Posted by Nostromo

...... Even Panesar himself promised much in his first Ashes test, but the Aussies soon got his measure and that was that.

Panesar wasnt helped by schoolboy captaincy in the Ashes though, after Perth Flintoffs fields were giving the Aussies 4 an over without them trying .

I like Panesar and I think he will do better than OK through his career. We have to remember that he is still young and learning all the time. After all Vettori is better than OK and in a couple of years I cant see Panesar being any worse than him.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

Assuming all 4 bowlers are fit and firing you only need 4! The problem today was Hoggard got injured and after lunch Harmison totally lost his line.

No not really IMO - had Hoggy not been injured, the rest bar Panesar would still have been bowling pies, Collingwood was not - but he's not a front line bowler.

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

Panesar wasnt helped by schoolboy captaincy in the Ashes though, after Perth Flintoffs fields were giving the Aussies 4 an over without them trying.

Not true I don't think - the Aussies were thrashing everything in sight, no captain can set a field for that.

[Henners]

When the ball isn't swiging for you, the best thing to do is bowl straight. Now if Harmison can't do that than he doesn't deserve to be in the team. He will be under pressure tommorrow to finish off the tail end and of course, perhaps he will bowl by the evening session if all goes to plan for England.

The fact is, Harmison needs to be on form if England want to win the game. Otherwise, we'll have to depend on a Panesar bowling like a man possessed (ie - Shane Warne in the Ashes 05' and 06-07) because as it was said in the World Cup, england don't have to many Wicket taking bowlers.

[acker]

Actualy getting a good look at this test it's coming in on Fox 2 about 8pm our time. I will give a slap and a sledge.

Slap : Well done Monty excellent effort and with a bowler injured and another spraying like a shot gun. It wont be long before the marketing people at "Nike" call you and we see a big white tick on the front of that black bandana.

Sledge : Steve Harmison for using homesickness, media pressure and one day cricket as disguises and excuses for poor form. Do yourself a favor find a good phychiartrist and also a long time cricketing freind who will tell you warts and all what they think you are doing wrong or different now compared to early in your career.

[Nostromo]

Originally Posted by Henners

Otherwise, we'll have to depend on a Panesar bowling like a man possessed (ie - Shane Warne in the Ashes 05' and 06-07) because as it was said in the World Cup, england don't have to many Wicket taking bowlers.

That is where expectations can exceed reality. Panesar is not and never will be anywhere near the same class of spinner as Shane Warne. He can (and probably will) have some very good tests in his career where he has 'won' the match for England, but IMO those will be few and far between. Generally, the best that one can expect out of Panesar is to remain a 'good' bowler and no more.

[greg]

Monty is a good test spinner and is better than any other English spinner from the last 20 years so you can't blame us for being excited about him.Even good judges from Pakistan and India have praised him up as being above average so why run him down constantly?

Anyway we may have a better one than Monty in a couple of years time if Rashid contiues to progress like he is.