Hoggard To Replace Out Of Sorts Plunkett For Fourth Test.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

that is the beauty of a 5 man attack, Plunkett could have been "carried", which would have helped his confidence. After all, at times Vaughan barely used Jones, giving him 4 or 5 overs here and there.

England should IMO have a 5 man attack - and if possible keep Harmison/Flintoff/Hoggard as the core, get rid of Sidebottom if Hoggard is fit, and rotate the other seamers Mahmood/Plunkett to pitches that suit them.

Mahmood would have been better on the hard surface at Old Trafford due to his greater pace, and any chance of swing - and Plunkett could be in.

In fact with a five man attack England could look at Broad, Onions and any other good prospect.

The batting is different - Strauss class that he has been is sadly out of form, Bell and Collingwood should IMO not be in the same team.
Vaughan is a great captain, but his scores against the West Indies needs to be looked at over a longer period - if he does well against India that's one problem solved.

Flintoff coming back into form is another key issue, if he fires again - then that's another sigh of relief, but even so England need a sound experienced batsman to take them up to 2009, be it Ramp's, key Law, or whoever - just so long as not to many rookies are blooded all at once.

[darksideofthemoon]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

As for your other point, that is the beauty of a 5 man attack, Plunkett could have been "carried", which would have helped his confidence. After all, at times Vaughan barely used Jones, giving him 4 or 5 overs here and there.

Jones
2,2,1,2,1,1,5,1,1,3,1,1,0,1,4,1,1,1,2,4,1,1,2,3,1,0,2,1,2,1,6,1,5,0
34 innnings and 5 very good performances and now if he was fit would walk into the side after his performance in the Ashes. Fletcher persisted with him even though Vaughan didn't make the most of him. That is how long it can take a young bowler to show what he is capable of but people have big expectations after a couple of games.


I like a 5 man attack because it is possible to have a bowler injured or a couple of bowlers not bowling at their best or both. It is not often that all the bowlers are at their best in a single Test but over a series you would expect all of them to have one or two very good games.
Ashes
1st Test - Harmison 8 wickets
2nd Test - Flintoff 7 wickets
3rd Test - Jones 7 wickets
4th Test - Hoggard and Jones 5 wickets
5th Test - Flintoff 5 wickets

[darksideofthemoon]

I was reading an article by Bob Willis complaining about our young bowlers and how they should go back to county cricket and praising the young West Indies bowlers.

Edwards 26 games average 43.86 econ 4.00 s/r 65.77
Tayor 13 games average 39.68 econ 3.67 s/r 64.74
Powell 21 games average 45.41 econ 3.38 s/r 80.52

Plunkett 9 games average 39.82 econ 3.87 s/r 66.86
Mahmood 8 games average 38.10 econ 4.04 s/r 56.50
Anderson 16 games average 38.39 econ 3.81 s/r 60.45

I can't see much difference.

Willis
'In fact there is a case for Donald visiting the players when off with their counties and assist with their coaching. It is becoming increasingly important that the coaching between country and counties is coordinated and I heard a gripe recently from former England bowling coach, now with Surrey, Geoff Arnold

The complaint is that bowlers leave their respective counties to go to Loughborough to join up with England and return worse off than when they left. This needs to be addressed and my hope is that Peter Moores will have his finger on the pulse'.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Key is another - at least he has an experienced head, when Vaughan breaks down - the side is full of rookies.

I am bemused by how replacing either Strauss (39 Tests) or Bell (26 Tests) with Key (15 Tests) adds experince?

[Irish Left Armer]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Flintoff coming back into form is another key issue, if he fires again - then that's another sigh of relief, but even so England need a sound experienced batsman to take them up to 2009, be it Ramp's, key Law, or whoever - just so long as not to many rookies are blooded all at once.

I love how you snuck Stuart Law in there. Genius. Just approaching 39 years of age now, perfect time for England to give this Australian his first call up. I can hear the howls of derision from around the world already.

Still, I suppose he plays for the right county.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

I am bemused by how replacing either Strauss (39 Tests) or Bell (26 Tests) with Key (15 Tests) adds experince?

Would you not agree FF that had England chose key in Australia when Trescothick broke down (they had the chance) - he would with his 15 tests have been more experienced than Joyce, Plunkett, Tremlett and Mahmood?, also with his reputation as a "flat track bully" - would he not have been more suited to the pitches out there, rather than the out of form Strauss, Bell ( only a slightly better average than Flintoff's poor average), or any of the batmen other than Pietersen and Collingwood?.

Also Key has been around a long time, he is an experienced player.

[Collyisamackem]

Ern, wasn't Key injured all winter anyway? He was certainly out of form from the last few county games he played that season at any rate.

He wouldn't have saved Flintoff's bacon, certainly.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Irish Left Armer

I love how you snuck Stuart Law in there[...]Still, I suppose he plays for the right county.

LOL not that old county bias chestnut again, I don't care which county a player come from - just so long as he performs.

Also with "central contracts" player don't really play for the counties any more, they are England player first.

You don't mention I "snucked" key in there ILA, he plays for kent, not for Lanc's, and Ramrakash who plays for Surrey.

My sole point is that England need a couple of older experienced players, be it Law - Adams - Ramp,s Butcher, key or whoever.

If you want me to sing a lancashre song - Had Vaughan not took the place of Mal Loye - then England might have won the World Cup.

[Ernest]

I thought key was on some tour or another in the Winter Colly, also in form - I think some expected he might have been called into the England squad when Trescothick went home, at least that's what I thought.

[adamberry]

Originally Posted by Collyisamackem

Ern, wasn't Key injured all winter anyway? He was certainly out of form from the last few county games he played that season at any rate.

Spot on on both counts Colly. Key had shoulder surgery over the winter, and was in rubbish form anyway.