Hoggard To Replace Out Of Sorts Plunkett For Fourth Test.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Collyisamackem

Incidentally, do you think Read will ever be selected again?

I'd be surprised if he was selected again. He really suffered at the hands of Fletcher and ought to have played more consecutive Tests. Essentially dropping someone after three Tests and then another spell of two is hardly fair.

Prior will do a job for a while. He'll get criticism eventually because his keeping isn't up to Read's standard. He's already proved he doesn't like Sidebottom dropping a catch at Headingley and at Old Trafford off him!! However, we cannot have everything and he does the majority of what he's selected to do. Hopefully Davies will improve his glovework because the reports I've read suggest he's quite shoddy in that area.

[Irish Left Armer]

Originally Posted by Ernest

LOL not that old county bias chestnut again, I don't care which county a player come from - just so long as he performs.

Also with "central contracts" player don't really play for the counties any more, they are England player first.

You don't mention I "snucked" key in there ILA, he plays for kent, not for Lanc's, and Ramrakash who plays for Surrey.

My sole point is that England need a couple of older experienced players, be it Law - Adams - Ramp,s Butcher, key or whoever.

If you want me to sing a lancashre song - Had Vaughan not took the place of Mal Loye - then England might have won the World Cup.

Haha, it's not an old chestnut, it's obvious you're clearly biased towards Lancs players. You've suggested picking about half the team in the last few years. Your wanting to pick Key and Ramps, Adams as captain, etc is all just part of your rich tapestry.

Certainly entertaining.

Oh and no chance England would have won the World Cup with Loye instead of Vaughan. Vaughan was rubbish and should surely retire from one days but Loye only has one shot and was being found out at the highest level. Would have very little difference imo.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Irish Left Armer

Oh and no chance England would have won the World Cup with Loye instead of Vaughan[...] but Loye only has one shot and was being found out at the highest level. Would have very little difference imo.

Well England would not have won the Tri Nation one day trophy without Loye managing to stay at the wicket for 10 overs, and giving the other players a chance.

Have you seen Loye play?, I doubt you have - he does slog the ball, but he can play shots.

So if Loye being in the team that won the one day series in Australia - then it stands to reason he should have been picked for the World Cup - you don't sack the player that had woken the team up.

As for the bias being an old chestnut - then it is - sure I supported Flintoff and he delivered most of the time post 2004, and most would agree other than - "fairweather" supporters.

Did Devon Malcolm play for Lancashire, that was not a popular choice of mine, Stewart Lamb Robin Smith Ian Botham - did all these players come from lancashire.

If you mean I said Anderson was hard done by being a perpetual tea boy for months on end - then I stand by that.

Yes I did say Keedy should have been in the England team, I still believe that he was a best option in England at the time, so what does that matter?.

[flanflinger]

Been out of the loop for 24 hours, and have read all the comments to include Key (all from Ern) and I have not been convinced by one of them

1. Yes he had a stop start career and may not have had the opportunities of some, but even so his Test match record does not stand up to any of the incumbents (and it is not as if he is making a very loud case in County games)
2. Yes he did hit a double hundred against the West Indies, but the fact is that they were not a "superior" attack to the one we have seen in this series. (a bowling unit is not superior because Lara is playing!!)
3. Yes Key does have county experince but not Test experince I would prefer a guy with 23 Tests, over a guy with 15 any day. (if you are looking to add an experienced hand, Test matches are the bench mark I would go for)
4. Yes Key does have a very good highest Test score, by no other score of merit
5. Bell does not have a very good average against Australia, but Key has an even more inferior average

These are facts, Rachael has also made a very good case as to why Key is not as good. http://www.world-a-team.com/showpost...0&postcount=39

Finally in Bell and Collingwood you also have two guys who can bowl, and are vastly superior in the field. Key is not a bowler, and although I once saw him take a superb catch, his fielding is generally inferior to the other two guys.

[Ernest]

FF: key has never been given the same chance as Bell, that was because Bell had some good fortune to get back in the side when Vaughan was injured.

FF-How can Key not do better than the out of form Strauss?, how do you know just how good key would be as an England player when all he has had is a 15 match run SPLIT into 2 halves.

Bell's England future was in doubt - but he got a chance - why should key not get the same?.

The England batting line up is almost the same as the side that got slaughtered in Australia, what makes you think they will do better the next time England come up against stiffer opposition.

What happens when Flintoff is fit?, and Trescothick is fit? - and Vaughan does not break down, there will be enforced changes in any case - with Strauss and Bell the favourites to go IMO.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

FF: key has never been given the same chance as Bell, that was because Bell had some good fortune to get back in the side when Vaughan was injured.

Firstly, you are factually wrong he came in to the side in place of Flintoff, and the difference between him and Key, was that he made the most of his second chance and proceed to score a 375 runs at 93.75.

Key never really made the most of any of chances, and the result after a reasonable number of Tests is a very poor average of just 31.

Originally Posted by Ernest

how do you know just how good key would be as an England player when all he has had is a 15 match run SPLIT into 2 halves.

See my point, if you have a second chance you need to take it... if you don't why should you get a third, when there are so many other players out there

Originally Posted by Ernest

Bell's England future was in doubt - but he got a chance

Yes and he took it, Key hasn't ever taken full advantage of the chances he has been given

Originally Posted by Ernest

The England batting line up is almost the same as the side that got slaughtered in Australia, what makes you think they will do better the next time England come up against stiffer opposition.

What stiffer opposition is there? McGrath - gone, Warne - gone. There will not be another Test attack as good as, as efficient as or as motivated to win Warne, McGrath, Lee and Clarke for a long time? The fact is that two of Tait, Cullen, Johnson or MacGill combined with Clarke and Lee will not match up, and what other Test attack out there is as good. South Africa have two ageing fast bowlers, but after that who have they got? Sri Lanka may come close, but they are nowhere near in the same league

Originally Posted by Ernest

with Strauss and Bell the favourites to go IMO.

Why Bell, as long as he is scoring runs, at difficult times as in the last Test, his place is not under threat. Strauss has a big cloud over him, but I can't see Trescothick coming back in a hurry, and when Flintoff returns, he might come into a four man attack, rather than a five man. Bell is doing what he needs to do, score runs.

On the subject of Key, if Trescothick and Flintoff are coming back, why should he get in ahead of them? You defeat your own argument with this one?

How many times have we argued over this one, and you are still to create a decent reason why Bell should go and Key replace him, please please please give this one up, it's boring..

[Collyisamackem]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

Prior will do a job for a while. He'll get criticism eventually because his keeping isn't up to Read's standard. He's already proved he doesn't like Sidebottom dropping a catch at Headingley and at Old Trafford off him!! However, we cannot have everything and he does the majority of what he's selected to do.

Just thinking on that, I actually missed the drop off Sidebottom's bowling for some reason, as concentrating on where the ball is for 90 overs is tough - I appreciate how much conentration it must take if you are actually playing! What I didn't miss, however, was that when Monty was bowling Collingwood was almost playing as a back-up wicket keeper at slip as Prior either gloved or simply let through balls to him. Of course Colly has the agility, coordination and perception to be ahead of most people in gauging where a ball is going to go, but Prior should be taking more balls and knowing where they are going, otherwise when Monty is bowling he should just hand the gloves to Colly and field at slip himself!

It's a small criticism and I think his keeping is decent, and his batting could be very good, but it is an area I want to see him improve upon. I'm sure Jack Russell would help at the drop of a hat.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Collyisamackem

I'm sure Jack Russell would help at the drop of a hat.

Just as long as the hat dropped was not Jack's lucky "flower pot hat", that was so battered and torn!! It might break it, and then he would no hat, and be off in huff to eat some tins of beans on his own...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ru...t%29#Character

[Collyisamackem]

Blimey, I had never heard all that before! Slightly or very OCD perhaps. Still, Jack does know how to keep and whatever he likes to do in his own time I don't mind, if he helps Prior to keep well to Monty!

[adamberry]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

please please please give this one up, it's boring..

Right then Ern. If Key's so good, and close to international recall, then why is he not in the England A squad that was announced today?

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/engla...ry/298120.html