Hoggard To Replace Out Of Sorts Plunkett For Fourth Test.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Even many Australians were saying that it was good for Cricket that England won in 05.

Not at the time they didn't, I agree that England beating Australia in 2005 brought in large crowds in OZ 2006/07 - hoping for nothing less than for England to get a good trouncing, in other words to establish themselves once again as world #1.

I also did not see any England supporters moaning when from 2004 onwards - England thrashed every team they played, up to and including Australia in 2005, and I believe that the England team and supporters would have wished that they dominated world cricket for as long as they could.

I don't think the loss of Warne and McGrath will mean that Australia are any less a force, in 2005 Lee and Warne nearly at times times twarted England with both bat and ball.

Tait and Lee IMO, would be more than a match for most sides - interesting times ahead.

[pie_chucker]

Originally Posted by Ernest

I don't think the loss of Warne and McGrath will mean that Australia are any less a force, in 2005 Lee and Warne nearly at times times twarted England with both bat and ball.

Tait and Lee IMO, would be more than a match for most sides - interesting times ahead.

Ern, I think Australia will be much less of a force without McGrath and Warne. Warne was the best spinner (and one of the best bowlers) ever and McGrath is the leading bowler in the second tier of all time great pace bowlers. I still doubt they can replace both of them.

Lee and Tait may scare other teams but after about 20 tests Lee's record against England is still very poor and I cant see it improving. Tait will be quick and take wickets but he will always be wayward and because you havent got a Warne or McGrath to apply pressure from the other end he will be less effective.

I'm going to stick my neck out here and provided most of our key players are fit we will win the '09 ashes and defend them 2 years later.

[puts tin hat on and runs....]

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

One team dominating is far from good for World Cricket

If the alternative to one excellent team dominating is two or more excellent teams of the same high standard we'd all agree as to which is better... but if the alternative to one team being excellent and the rest chasing is NO team being excellent.... I'd take one team dominating!

At least the Tests between the other nations should be competitive!!!

I'd rather the Aussies never, ever again dropped below the standard set in the 2007 Ashes... but I'd also like to see others do the same: I don't really care whether the "other" includes England, or is merely (for example) Sri Lanka and South Africa... but even if NO other side can match that standard... I'd like to know that one team in the world is at least setting the bar at a level that exposes imposters!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

Lee and Tait may scare other teams but after about 20 tests Lee's record against England is still very poor and I cant see it improving.

I just think that Lee always looks that he could take a wicket even when bowling bad, he did bowl some good spells in 2005, and in one match when England needed a smallish total - he along with Warne looked dangerous.

A bit like poor old Devon Malcolm, he could be a bit wayward but got top order wickets.

Originally Posted by pie_chacker

I'm going to stick my neck out here and provided most of our key players are fit we will win the '09 ashes and defend them 2 years later.

I agree 100%, Vaughan is still out(ish) of form with the bat, but he is a ruthless captain and I would keep him because he has captained England to victory over Australia before ( unless his batting goes like Strauss ).

Cook
Trescothick
Vaughan
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
Prior
S Jones
Hoggard
Harmison
Panesar

Could win back the Ashes in 2009 if fit.

Reserves:
Bell
Strauss
Sidebottom
Read
Key

I would make sure that all the reserves are experienced enough should the senior players break down.

Originally Posted by Rachael

but even if NO other side can match that standard... I'd like to know that one team in the world is at least setting the bar at a level that exposes imposters!

Spot on - Australia should not have to lower it's standards to bring itself to the levels of other countries, England India et al should try and rise to be able to compete with the best.

[pie_chucker]

Unfortunatly with the loss of Langer, McGrath and Warne the Australian standard has already dropped. When Hayden and Glichrist go soon it will drop further.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

When Hayden and Glichrist go soon it will drop further.

Yes that's a very good point - no team can lose so many top players without being affected.

The sad thing about that is though - World cricket is at a low ebb with Tenduker getting on, Lara having retired, and other stars fading - Australia set a good standard for the other sides to aim for.

I would rather England win the Ashes in 2009 because the players are up to the job, not because Australia have declined.

Only for injuries - England could well have been setting the stadard, but that's the way it goes.

[pie_chucker]

Originally Posted by Ernest

- England could well have been setting the stadard...

If it isnt Australia setting the standard then IMO it will be England. I cant see any other team doing it. South Africa have too much internal politics going on and dont have that killer instinct in their game they are also too afraid to lose.

India again have too much infighting going on they are also overburdened by hype and expectations from their fans i.e Pathan takes a few cheap wickets against a very poor Bangladesh side and suddenly he's the best bowler in the world.

Pakistan -no consistancy in selection....

Sri Lanka - Muralis only got a few more years left, then.......

Rachael - you mentioned the 07 Aussies team setting the standard, which is fair enough, but if that team played against the 80's West Indies team they (the Aussies) would have lost at least 4 matches out of 5. But has the standard really dropped that much in 20 odd years??

[Quagmire]

You cannot compare two teams that are around 20 years apart, it is a totally different game. Its like saying that the great Steve Waugh's side was better than Bradman's invincibles or vica vera.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Ernest

I Cook
Trescothick
Vaughan
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
Prior
S Jones
Hoggard
Harmison
Panesar

Could we all please leave Simon Jones out of this? The chances of him playing international cricket again look more slim as every week goes by. He's not played since the Trent Bridge Test of 2005, nearly two years and has barely bowled a ball in first class cricket too. His injury record before this injury was pretty poor too. He's not someone I would be pinning any hopes on unfortunately.

[flanflinger]

Ern's team has three major holes, not just Simon Jones.

Flintoff - the fact is that injury after injury after injury will reduce his effectiveness. We will have to wait and see whether he will ever get back to the form of Ashes 05.

Trescothick - he has a major problem that has forced him out of two tours already, we will have to see if he can ever mentally play at Test level again.