Dropping Monty

[flanflinger]

There seems to be a worrying trend appearing, regarding Monty and the start of series'. It seems that both Fletcher, and now Moores, are both very keen to drop Monty at the start of a series. The problem for both of them is that it does not seem to be based on form, or ability, but bringing in another player who might succeed (in particular with the bat). However, it seems very quickly Monty ends up back in the team by the end of a series.

Now in Swann's case he was brought into the tour party as the second spinner with a view to playing two spinners, but one spinner is selected and Monty, for no reason I can fathom, is the man to lose out!!

I really hope Swann does well, and he has already snatched a wicket, but Monty is by far the better spinner, and should be playing instead of Swann!!

[greg]

Well in one day cricket you need a long batting line up and athletic fielders and seeing as Swann is a far better fielder and batsman than Monty they have plumped for him,while it may be unfair on Monty i can at least understand this decision as it is a one day game,but the ridiculous choice of Fletcher to pick Giles in Brisbane will always baffle me.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

but Monty is by far the better spinner, and should be playing instead of Swann!!

In principle I agree with you FF. However, Monty is not a good limited overs bowler yet. Swann varies his pace far more than Monty and gives it more flight and a good tweak. Monty hasn't shown yet that he is even learning in the one day game making the same mistakes and errors over and over again. He has the raw ability to do it but doesn't appear brave enough to do it, relying on bowling quicker and flatter.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

He has the raw ability to do it but doesn't appear brave enough to do it, relying on bowling quicker and flatter.

But if he keeps getting dropped how will he learn, and also, I have a more worrying theory and it goes something like this.

Swann does OK in the ODI's, and they stick with one spinner. The Test team gets selected, and Swann gets a place. Next thing we know the Tour selectors opt for just one spinner, and pick (on form) Swann. This is my fear; that when the Test series starts, Swann will be the number one pick, and that for me would spell disaster.

[Rachael]

I'd hope to see England play both Swann and Panesar in the Tests... ideally alongside Hoggard and Sidebottom: England certainly played two spinners in 2003-4... and I can't see the pitches being THAT different!

The occasional bowling could be fun in the Test series though: the spin options should at least include Pietersen and Vaughan, but might also include Shah if he finds great form in the ODI series! It will be interesting to see which of them ends up getting the most overs under his belt...

[greg]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

The Test team gets selected, and Swann gets a place. Next thing we know the Tour selectors opt for just one spinner, and pick (on form) Swann.

I can see your concern but i would be happy if Monty never played one day cricket at all and was left to concentrate on winning us test matches which he has done on a regular basis for someone so early into their test career.I can't see anybody shifting Monty from the test side yet but stranger things have happened.

Personally i think Swann will play as the 2nd spinner in the test series and if we take a 3rd it will be Rashid.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Rachael

ideally alongside Hoggard and Sidebottom:

While I agree with you about two spinners, ideally Hoggard would NOT be accompanied by Sidebottom. They are two similar in pace, and I doubt that they will get the same assistance as they do in England.

For me the ideal selection would be

Harmison
Hoggard
Panesar
Swann

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by greg

I can't see anybody shifting Monty from the test side yet but stranger things have happened.

I thought that before last winters Ashes... The fact is that Monty will always have question marks over his head, because of his lack of ability with the bat. No matter how well he does with the ball.

This is why I am very worried about him being dropped so early on in this tour!!

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

He has the raw ability to do it but doesn't appear brave enough to do it, relying on bowling quicker and flatter.

From Simon Mann's column on the BBC website, which I think highlights my point, that there is no point hoping Monty will get the experince he needs to improve by carrying drinks:

Originally Posted by Simon Mann

If Panesar is to progress, clearly he has to play and he must have been frustrated to see Swann’s first ball turn and bounce.

[Speedboy Salesman]

I see both points here which there are two:

1) For Panesar to succeed, he must play in ODIs to learn how play an ODI properly.

That's of course a very good point. Panesar at the moment bowls with too much pace in ODIs and become predictable. For Panesar to become an ODI bowler proper, he needs to learn how to bowl slower in ODIs and learn that he can bowl well in ODIs if he just calms himself down.

2) Panesar is not an ODI bowler, he could stick to Test cricket

Getting smacked around the park in ODIs is not going to do Panesar's confidence any good. It may affect his Test and reputation with the coaches if they see Panesar's bowling being hit over the boundary rope. Naturally, Test cricket and ODI cricket is different. Why should he learn how to bowl in ODIs if he can just be a Test bowler?


I think that keeping Panesar away from ODIs is a good idea, as long as the coach sees that Panesar is quite simply invaluable in Tests, as he bowls long spells, is aggressive, and is a genuine wicket-taking option. He can also dry up an end. Lest we forget, this is a man that took 5 Australian wickets in his debut, and on a non-spinners pitch.