Ramps tipped for recall...

[Moss]

I don't see the problem with having Ramps back. Yes, he's "old" in cricketing terms, but it's not stopped him from having two excellent seasons. He is not the player he was when he failed at International level before. He is confident and playing well.

[Milo]

Originally Posted by greg

Gooch was only 31 when he was brought back not 38 and we weren't exactly flush with quality openers back then.

In fact, Robinson and Broad both averaged more than Gooch around the time Goochie was recalled initially. In fact, poor old Foxy Fowler was the one actually dropped for Gooch having just had his best ever tour for England scoring a double hundred in India. His average of 35 was the equal of Gooch's and he played the five tests in 84 against the West Indies. He was only 27. After Robinson's great form in India and good performances in the 85 Ashes and Broad's form in The 86/7 Ashes there was an argument for them not picking Gooch ever again after he refused to tour Australia in 87. If it wasn't for his hundred in the 87 MCC centenary test he may have never played again and we could have been using him as a direct comparison for what has happened with Ramprakash. Gooch was then brought back in (after also opting out of the NZ tour in 87-88) and made skipper at 36 after another woeful series against Terry Alderman in 89.

The main fact is that Gooch scored runs well into his 40s (having not previously distinguished themselves at test level), so the same could be said for any other player. Obviously, once Gooch was picked to play alongside Robinson and Broad he proved to be the better player.....but the same could be true for Ramprakash when compared to Bell and Collingwood.

[flanflinger]

As much as I like Ramps, and think he has played excellently for Surrey, I do feel at 38, he is just too old. We have the Ashes is 2009, will he be around, I doubt it.. so why give the Test place to him.

I agree that Strauss has not done enough, but there has to be another option other than a 38 year old surely!!

My option would be drop Strauss, push Vaughan up the order and get Shah into the team.

[feverpitch]

Is he in the top six batsmen in the country at the moment? Of course. And the batting isn't 'fixed' - Strauss is struggling while we consistently fail to score big hundreds, something Ramps is brilliant at.

The best way of 'building for the future', as Australia have shown, is to pick your best possible side!

More thoughts

[pie_chucker]

Originally Posted by Speedboy Salesman

For me this is pointless, a good county player, not so good at international level, nearly finished his career..

Spot on SS i couldnt have written that any better myself. It would be a massive backwards step - assuming that Ramps actaully suceeded he would only have a year at best. So whats the point, anyway, the stats would point to another failure...

Originally Posted by greg

Gooch was only 31 when he was brought back .

Exactly, and at least Gooch failed in his early years against bowlers like Lillee, Thompson, Holding, Marshall, Garner, Imran, Hadlee, Kapil....... (theres no disgrace there!)

Gooch's faiulures were down to technical things rather than mental. Assuming that Ramps gets picked he will be under enormous pressure to suceed. Mentally i doubt he could cope with that.

The annoying thing is Ramps had an ideal technique for test cricket if he had the mental toughness of an Atherton or the self belief of a Botham he'd still be playing now and have over 10000 test runs to his name

[Speedboy Salesman]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

Spot on SS i couldnt have written that any better myself. It would be a massive backwards step - assuming that Ramps actaully suceeded he would only have a year at best. So whats the point, anyway, the stats would point to another failure...

Exactly PC, probably one year. One year. That's barely enough time to get properly reacquianted with the ins and out of international test cricket after a long lay off. He's no spring chicken, and then see ya at the old folk's home Ramps! I thought the ECB had more brains than this, I'm starting to think Rach and Ern are actually ON the ECB!

We've been making some good strides at the moment with bringing young players in: Broad, Shah, Bopara, Cook.....Ramprakash???? While we're at it, let's bring the Sky Broadcasting team out of retirement: Botham, Gower, Willis...I'm sure Boycott would be up for it as well. I'm sure the Aussies are laughing their cork hats off at this. Ramps has failed before at international level, and he'll most likely fail again. There's a huge difference between English county cricket and actually playing for the English national side. And even if Ramps does succedd, it's an extremely short term fix. Backwards step? It's more like trying to drive a car in reverse.

Personally, I'd be happier watching Alec Guinness going out to bat more than Ramprakash....and he's dead.

[pie_chucker]

Originally Posted by Speedboy Salesman

There's a huge difference between English county cricket and actually playing for the English national side. .

There is a massive differance! Just look what happened to our county 20/20 specialists. It was too painful to watch because of the massive gulf in class.

Originally Posted by Speedboy Salesman

Personally, I'd be happier watching Alec Guinness going out to bat more than Ramprakash....and he's dead.

Yes, but at least he could use the force .

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Speedboy Salesman

We've been making some good strides at the moment with bringing young players in: Broad, Shah, Bopara, Cook.....

Um... Broad and Bopara still have a lot to prove... and would almost certainly benefit from two more seasons of county cricket before they break into Test cricket... and England's efforts at bringing in young players have also led to experiments with Prior, Plunkett and Mahmood. Moreover, the real finds of Moore's brief tenure have been the rather more mature Sidebottom and Swann.

Moores has been getting a lot of acclaim for having the guts to pick those who made unanswerable cases in domestic cricket.

I've no problem with Shah being in the tour party... but if Strauss is NOT taken it should only be because someone outside of the squad is making a stunning case for inclusion... and right now that means Ramps or... well.. um... maybe Sales - and of the two I'd prefer Ramps.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Rachael

but if Strauss is NOT taken it should only be because someone outside of the squad is making a stunning case for inclusion... and right now that means Ramps or... well.. um... maybe Sales - and of the two I'd prefer Ramps.

Quite right Rachael - and I would say to flanflinger and others on this thread, even if Ramp's is 38 - could he possibly do any worse that Strauss?, I doubt it.

Even Chris Adams would be better, and FF Vaughan can be put back up the order when his form returns, he has done very little since 2005.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Speedboy Salesman

Ern must be happy.

For me this is pointless, a good county player, not so good at international level, nearly finished his career, maybe only a year at most? What can this achieve? For me, it's just baffling.

Yes I am pleased - looking at the chances that some of the England side have had - I find that baffling also, I find the whole England keeper affair baffling.

I agree Ramp's is in the twilight of his career, but if he goes out with a crescendo in 2009 - his selection would be well worth while.