Can we have this in County Cricket as well please...

[flanflinger]

The RFU and the Premiership have agreed a deal whereby the Clubs get compensated for losing players to Internationals. (BBC SPORT | Rugby Union | English club-v-country row ended) Probably very similar to the way it operates in Cricket. But this one line struck me:-

"A bonus will also be paid to clubs for fielding England-qualified players."

Unlike County Cricket, Premiership Rugby stands alone financially, so why do they have an agreement that means there are financial incentives to fielding English Qualified players, yet in Cricket, we have to suffer back-door Kolpaks and Passport professionals, while County Cricket gets big hand outs from Test matches, that keep most clubs afloat. It is about time the ECB incentivised counties by proportioning the Test money based on the number of English qualified players playing in the first Team.

If they want to play 5 Kolpaks/passport professionals, they are welcome to do so, but they get less from Test gate receipts and Test money if they do!! If they want to reap the benefit of England's Test success, they need to contribute to it IMO.

[Ninjaman]

I thought English counties did get less money for fielding Kolpal players.

Remember reading it somewhere very recently.

I'll try and see if memory is not playing tricks on me

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

A bonus will also be paid to clubs for fielding England-qualified players.

I trust any cricketing version would (as the Leicestershire Chairman's report suggested) be for fielding YOUNG England qualified players... because what clogs the system up at present (if anything does) is older England qualified players - many of whom are an asset to the game without standing even the slightest chance of getting into (or back into) Test cricket.

Kolpak players are a distractions: what matters for the future of international cricket is the % of youngsters (of any nation) being fielded by any given side.

[adamberry]

Originally Posted by Ninjaman

I thought English counties did get less money for fielding Kolpal players.

Sort of... the ECB dishes out money based on the average number of England-qualified players each side puts out over the season, was my understanding of it. I might be mistaken, but I also think that there is a bonus for putting out players under the age of 23.

As for the suggestion in flanflinger's original post, there are good and bad points to it. I do feel it's a good idea to offer some sort of incentive to sides churning out England players, but there is a problem. Think of an unfashionable county that doesn't often get England to select their players; i.e. Derbyshire. While they're desperately trying to contribute to England's international success, the other, larger, more fashionable counties get paid for contributing, leaving a larger gulf in bank balances between the two ends of the spectrum.

So, by all means encourage England player development, but not at the cost of leaving smaller clubs that can't/haven't the resources to do so straight away to rot, so to speak.

[pie_chucker]

What about applying a salary cap to county cricket??

As long as centrally contracted players were excluded this should make it more difficult for clubs to sign on Kolpaks on large salaries and would protect the "smaller" clubs from having to compete to pay these larger salaries.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ninjaman

I thought English counties did get less money for fielding Kolpal players.

Ninjman - you are right....

Originally Posted by BBC Sport

In an attempt to address this, the England and Wales Cricket Board provides cash incentives - £85 for one-day games and £340 for four-day matches - to counties for every England-qualified player they select instead.

BBC SPORT | Cricket | England | Gatting's war on foreign players

But £340/£85 per player, is hardly going to do much is it!! The result is that we still have as many passport professionals and Kolpaks as ever...

[darksideofthemoon]

Originally Posted by Ninjaman

I thought English counties did get less money for fielding Kolpal players.

Remember reading it somewhere very recently.

I'll try and see if memory is not playing tricks on me

Penalties to county for fielding non England qualified players £1,100 per CC game and £275 for one day game. Total £22,000.

[engssmoothcriminal]

Originally Posted by adamberry

Think of an unfashionable county that doesn't often get England to select their players; i.e. Derbyshire. While they're desperately trying to contribute to England's international success, the other, larger, more fashionable counties get paid for contributing, leaving a larger gulf in bank balances between the two ends of the spectrum.

So, by all means encourage England player development, but not at the cost of leaving smaller clubs that can't/haven't the resources to do so straight away to rot, so to speak.

Yep and when said unfashionable county (or more accurately a non test/international ground/div 2 county)..... for the sake of argument let's call them L-shire........... actually produces a quality young English cricketer....... for the sake of argument let's call him SB........ there is nothing to stop a fashionable county (a test/international ground/div 1 county) .....for the sake of argument let's call them N-shire.........swooping in offering more money and a higher profile which will inevitably speed up their ascent to the England side. Now L-Shire will then be left with no option but to either promote a substandard English player from their 2nd XI to avoid being penalised by the ECB or as they are unable to compete financially with the N-shire's, La-shire's and H-shire's of this world and attract the top English players sign a cheaper stop gap kolpak plus the fine for fielding him .......for the sake of argument let's call him GK....... in a bid to keep the standard of the side up to scratch. Now N-shire who haven't produced a home grown English player for ages and have a squad jam packed with players signed from the "unfashionable" feeder counties meet Mr Gatting's requirements for correct volume of England players and won't be penalised.

Double standards? Surely not.

(a quick aside how on earth did Mike Gatting who has failed utterly in every senior role he has been given by England get the job?)

[flanflinger]

While I agree with what most of you are saying my problem is mainly with the Standard of the Kolpak players, who, with some exceptions, are probably no better than a prospective English Qualified player.

The problem for me is this, the rule is one overseas player, but the reality is that a fairly average 28 year old Saffer will sneak in via a Kolpak, if they are good enough they should be offered the Overseas player spot, if they are not that good, then I would prefer to see a young English player in the team. Kolpaks are a short term fix.

It is not the same with the FA premiership (IMO) as they is a larger pool of players (African, European) and the quality of foreign imports is a lot higher than the quality of many home grown players. Kolpak's and passport professional Cricket players tend to come from three nations (with a few more starting to trickle through from the Caribbean) and the quality of some is not as good as home grown talent (who may not be seen as being experienced enough i.e. a rough diamond, as opposed to ready made a cheap imitation), but they probably get the nod because they have an Australian accent, and are therefore perceived to be better.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Vaughan Van Jaarsveld

"I'm going to be spending at least 210 days a year here (in England) and the aim is to play for England. I just want to play cricket at the highest level possible and there are more opportunities here."

Just twelve months before turning his back on his contract and now wanting to play for SA. This proved my point Kolpaks are here for the money, and the Counties are stupid enough to give them the cash, rather than investing in home grown talent.