5 slick Aussie pacemen coming to Ashes 2009 in England

[Speedboy Salesman]

Well Seamer, if MacGill is NOT playing, would you take Hogg instead? White? Because Panesar is streets ahead of both Hogg and White.

[pie_chucker]

Originally Posted by acker

They will lose sleep and will be scared.

So far Lee or Tait havent scared the English . I can easily see the English scoring at 4+ an over from these two. It looks like Clark and Johnson have a helluva job to do keeping things tight!

The aussie seamer who will be pivotal will be Clark, all of our bats are quite aggresive against the quick stuff (and like the ball coming on) and will score quite heavily. I feel if Clark keeps it tight he will cause problems. I cant see any problems posed by any Aussie spinner and as an Englishman i hope that Tait and Lee play together.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

The aussie seamer who will be pivotal will be Clark

I'm confident that Clark will be the McGrath-like fulcrum of the attack... and I'm quite sure that Lee (who does finally appear to be showing promise) and Bracken (extremely competent) would compliment him nicely and provide the Aussies with a perfectly sound attack... I'm prepared to give Johnson and Hilfenhaus the benefit of the doubt - I suspect they will, by then, be the first choice options.

Having Lee and Bracken in reserve will be handly... and that should leave Tait to toil in obscurity as the Aussie Mahmood

[pie_chucker]

If Flintoff can remain fit I'd say that:

Flintoff
Harmison
Hoggard
Sidebottom

Would be at least a match for any attack the aussies would put out in 2009.

We have praised Johnson and Hilfenhaus but are they any better than say, Hoggard and Sidebottom?
I'd rather have a fit Flintoff than Lee and Harmison would still IMO be more threatening than Tait.

I will admit that Clark is the standout Aussie bowler but if runs are coming easy enough at the other end then surely we can look to see him off.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker

We have praised Johnson and Hilfenhaus but are they any better than say, Hoggard and Sidebottom?

Not at all (at least at this stage in their careers). Right now, Hoggard (the only one of the quartet with enough Tests under his belt to have a meaningful rating) is (quite rightly) rated 7th in the world... and Sidebottom has performed exceptionally well in recent Tests and ODI games and has only got to continue what he's been doing to earn a similar rating.

Johnson and Hilfenhaus have the potential to join them at that level in due course... and may indeed come to surpass them.... but maturing takes time: Brett Lee had promise in his early 20s and has only really started looking the part since turning 30... and that's not particularly unusual.

What England need is a contrasting seamer to play with them.. but there's no reason to doubt that at least one of Harmison, Flintoff, Broad, Tremlett, Anderson and Simon Jones will be up to the task.

Neither side lacks strength in depth: a good series beckons.

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by Speedboy Salesman

Well Seamer, if MacGill is NOT playing, would you take Hogg instead? White? Because Panesar is streets ahead of both Hogg and White.

SS, honestly, it is too far out to tell. But as far as Hogg is concerned, right now at this point of time, he is is in the top two or three spin bowlers in the world in both forms of the game. I felt he should have been selected ahead of McGill for this test series, and from what i have seen of McGill, and looking at Hogg's excellent First class performances this year, my opinion still stands.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Seamer

But as far as Hogg is concerned, right now at this point of time, he is is in the top two or three spin bowlers in the world in both forms of the game.

So what would be your top three? The Candidates:-

India - Kumble, Singh
Pakistan - Kaneria
England - Panesar
Australia - MacGill, Hogg
Sri Lanka - Murali
New Zealand - Vettori
South Africa - Harris
Bangladesh - Rafique

Would you really rate Hogg above most of these guys?? Just look at his Test record, he has by far the worst of all of them

[flanflinger]

Brett Lee - We love Brett Lee
Mitchell Johnson - still new, lets wait and see
Shaun Tait - if he ever stays fit?
Stuart Clark - if he is not drawing his pension - but he is the only one I actually worry about
Ben Hilfenhaus - Ben who?? He hasn't even played a Test???

To be honest if those are the guys we have to worry about, are you really that confident?

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Would you really rate Hogg above most of these guys?? Just look at his Test record, he has by far the worst of all of them

To be honest, it is too hard to honestly say, as i have not seen all those guys play recently. But of the ones i have seen (Muralitharan, Vettori, McGill) he is bowling better.

Hogg is bowling with a high degree of accuracy. He is obtaining good spin. He is a chinaman - something most batsman in the world have little opportunity of practicing against. He has a wrong-un that no-one can pick. Even when looking at the ball in slow motion on telly, it is damn near impossible to work it out.

Great judges of cricketing ability such as M.Waugh and D.Flemming have come out recently and said the exact same thing i am saying. All i can say is next time you get the chance to see him bowl, forget his past record and look at what is coming out of his hand right now. The guy is bowling fantastically.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Seamer

Great judges of cricketing ability ... D.Flemming

Isn't that an oxymoron?

The fact is that Hogg doesn't have the Test history to judge that he is one of the best playing.. for me the list is simple

Murali
Kumble
Kaneria

They all have 200+ wickets (Murali and Kumble have lot more) and have taken wickets all over the world... Hogg, will sadly go down amongst the also rans...

In terms of up and coming spinners

Kaneria (200+ and still only 26!!)
Panesar
Harriss

Head my list, Hogg at 36 is in the past it stage.. IMO..