5 slick Aussie pacemen coming to Ashes 2009 in England

[Milo]

Originally Posted by Rachael

I suspect the interesting discussions will, before long, involve Brett Lee (great tail-end batsman, shame about the bowling) and Hilfenhaus - and sooner rather than later, Hilfenhaus should start winning that argument.

Hilfenhaus has done nothing this year in Pura cup to suggest that he has any future at the top level of test cricket. I doubt you've ever seen him bowl, but for some reason his name is being thrown around as the future of Aussie cricket. He may well have bowled well last year, but so far, his development has not been seen.

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by Milo

Hilfenhaus has done nothing this year in Pura cup to suggest that he has any future at the top level of test cricket.

Well Milo, with regards to Hilfenhouse, he will have a future in both formats and will take 350+ wickets in both forms. I doubt the Aussie selectors are even bothering to look at his stats to be honest. Just remember, Shane Warne had done nothing in Pura Cup before rocketing into the Aussie team, because the powers that be recognised his special gifts rather than looked at his stats.

With respect to the TCA, there is only so much they can do to continue his development, which is why Hilfi will be on every tour with the Aussies, training on a full time basis with Troy Cooley and the rest of the team, and will be given as many games as prudent, until he has ripened.

I have seen this guy play on numerous occasions now, both live and on telly, and i must say he is a gem and has inate bowling skills potentially beyond any other in this generation.

A big beefy bloke, he can put them down at 140kmh with an awesome outswinger such as Bichel had. But he can bend them back in at the same pace as well. He has a great bouncer, and a very deceptive slower ball. He can also rock them in short of a length to get movement off the seam. He has all these different grips for the various balls that he bowls, yet achieves fairly reasonable accuracy.

I equate him to the Shane Warne of pace bowling. He has a nice bag of tricks under his belt, and from the batsman's point of view, the type you are never comfortable against where sudden death could come with any ball.

The guy only has a couple of seasons under his belt, is inexperienced, and needs to be moved to C.A from the TCA on a full time basis. And he is probably a couple of years away from ripening to the point of playing tests on a full time basis. But you will struggle to find any Aussie in the know who questions the potential this guy has - this type of bowler does not come along too often - and i believe he will achieve great things for Australian cricket in the future. And i believe the English will get their chance to see him in action in 2009

[acker]

Originally Posted by Milo

Hilfenhaus has done nothing this year in Pura cup to suggest that he has any future at the top level of test cricket. I doubt you've ever seen him bowl, but for some reason his name is being thrown around as the future of Aussie cricket. He may well have bowled well last year, but so far, his development has not been seen.

Yeah Milo

I would not disregard Lee (now rated number 5 in the world) Johnson who bowls faster than Harminson does with the wind behind him..when he bowl's into it or Tait a radical around 160 kph with as much scant disregard as you do.

Sure they dont look like "Jethro Tull" impersonators like "Sidebottom"

And they bowl 20 kph quicker than him.

Even Clark and the mysterious Hilfenhaus make your long haired lover from liverpool look like a non spinning slow bowler.

Keep believing the dream. Tony Grieg will jump out of the commentary box and captain you again during the series if you wish hard enough..

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by acker

Sure they dont look like "Jethro Tull" impersonators like "Sidebottom"

Personally I always thought he looked a bit more like Roger Daltrey....

Anyway, slight factual error, Jethro Tull was a band, I think you may mean the lead singer Ian Anderson.

[Notts Exile]

Sounds to me as though we'll be playing the best side the World has ever seen. Good to hear you guys talking up your side so much. The English are often accused of being arrogant but you guys manage it far better than we do. You slag off the opposition and big up your own players amazingly well. Maybe we shouldn't turn up in 2009, perhaps that's what you want.

I've got a feeling it'll all be a little different to what you're all painting. Wonder if we'll actually see Hilfenhaus? 350 wickets in both forms of the game. How stupid will you look if he fails? And Johnson bowling so much faster than Harmison etc etc. And getting at Sidebottom for the way he looks?? This from the nation that gave us Merv Hughes and keeps rolling out Symonds looking as ridiculous as anything ever seen on a cricket pitch!! Keep talking guys, it's amusing.

[darksideofthemoon]

I think Hilfenhaus will get 400+ wickets. Johnson and Tait look as if they will have injury problems.

Johnson 200 wickets
Clark 200 wickets
Lee 400 wickets
Tait 100 wickets

Harmison 250
Hoggard 400
Broad 400
Sidebottom 100
Anderson 250

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

Merv Hughes and keeps rolling out Symonds looking as ridiculous as anything ever seen on a cricket pitch!!

Too right.. with Symonds "war-paint" I sometimes wonder whether he is auditioning to be a clown?

All this speculation about three players, Johnson, Tait and Hilfenhaus make me laugh. Johnson and Tait have played two tests, Johnson played OK, Tait hasn't really done anything at Test level... Hilfenhaus has not played at all at Test level.. For me it is all conjecture.

Test matches are a leveller, talented gifted individuals - like Hick or Ramprakash have struggled with the step up. Yes, the Pura Cup is probably of a higher standard, however, nerves can effect anyone, players can fail to reach their potential.

The fact is we are talking about 2009, two years away, and anything can happen in that time. So I am amused that this debate is even happening.

[Quagmire]

I agree with you on most things flanflinger, bowlers take longer than batsman to develop so no one can really comment. The promising ones never usually make it but the out siders seem to be better bowlers.

Just looking at the ICC bowling ratings and you will notice the top bowlers all started young

1. Muralitharan - 904 - debute age 20 (SL)
2. Ntini - 808 - debute age 20 (SA)
3. Steyn - 775 - debute age 21 (SA)
4. Clark - 769 - debute age 30 (AUS)
5. Lee - 726 - debute age 23 (AUS)
6. Bond - 724 - debute age 26 (NZ)
7. Kumble - 702 - debute age 19 (IND)
8. Pollock - 701 - debute age 22 (SA)
9. Hoggard - 700 - debute age 23 (ENG)
10. Akhtar - 684 - debute age 22 (PAK)

Just looking at these guys shows the advantage of putting in the young players. How many of these guys when they started looked like they were going to be the bowlers they are today, none. The other problem is that there are more young bowlers that never make it than succeed.

[darksideofthemoon]

Quagmire

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

Wonder if we'll actually see Hilfenhaus? 350 wickets in both forms of the game. How stupid will you look if he fails?

Notts, the guy is young. Aus play 12 tests a year, sometimes more. If he averages 5 wickets a test for 6 years, he will get 350+. I think he will likely play more but I haven't said he'll break records and take 500 wickets. 350 wickets these days is not really anything special is it. The guy has unique bowling skill, no doubt. Whether he is a ruthless ice-man and had the mind and determination of a champion like Warne and McGrath is yet to be seen. But he is an annointed "golden boy" which menas he will play a lot for Australia.

And it is foolish to dismiss Australia's health in pace bowlers. Lee, Tait, Johnson, Hilfenhous, Bracken, Noffke, Clark - that's a quality list that no other country can better at this stage. Australian have a right to be optimistic surely.

On a personal front, i can't say i have been arrogant. I have said that we will win more than we lose, but will be unlikely to dominate as we have in the past. And i have not commented on the English side of things, because i do not know what you guys have got coming through. But i will say that it is wishful thinking to say that Flintoff, Harmison and Jones, if they are still playing, we be the same bowlers they were in 2005. If you guys do not have any young tearaways coming through however, then i suspect you might be in some trouble in the medium future.