5 slick Aussie pacemen coming to Ashes 2009 in England

[acker]

Is Sidebottom

Bob Willis's, John Lever's, Chris Old's, John Snow's and Procol Harum's biological love child ?

Might call this the retro ashes series and crack out the flares.

[Milo]

I remember plenty of Australians talking up Williams and Bracken when they debuted during India's last tour. They were both shown wanting at test level, and neither have played a test since.

Hilfenhaus MAY have a good test career, but at the moment it sounds as hopeful as the English were when they said Anderson would lead the attack for England (after his Aussie tour and World cup in 2003) for the next ten years and take 300 test wickets.

Of course there is potential. But he won't be the only player with potential to fade away if he doesn't step up.

I heard this all before.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Seamer

If you guys do not have any young tearaways coming through however, then i suspect you might be in some trouble in the medium future.

Couple of names for you:-

Broad - 21
Anderson - 25
Plunkett - 22
Bresnan - 22
Mahmood - 25
Tremlett - 26

I am not worried about pace bowlers.... I don't think we will see Jones in an England shirt again, and Flintoff may have to do some work on his action in order to play again...However there are enough young guys coming through...

The fact is that Harmison was, only a few years ago, the number one bowler in the world, he might not get in the team, but we have enough players able to perform, the result is that we are not too worried...

If Clark and Lee had both picked up injuries (which is possible with pace bowlers) how would you feel playing against India with Johnson, Hilfenhaus, Tait and MacGill?

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Couple of names for you:-

Broad - 21
Anderson - 25
Plunkett - 22
Bresnan - 22
Mahmood - 25
Tremlett - 26

Well, looking at that list, i must say that England is not looking to shabby in the pace department either. Tremlett and Bresnan i have not seen. Mahmood is OK, but nothing special. I do like Anderson however. He did'nt have a great series down here granted, but on English wickets with that quickish late out-swing, he will be a difficult customer. I also rate Plunkett pretty highly as well and he is a good find for England. Broad i have only seen in a couple ODI's. From what i have seen, he is somewhat limited in variation, but is fairly quick, bowls from a good height and had a great bouncer. From what i have seen, England will not be worse off if he replaces Harmison. All in all, England have reason to be fairly optimistic, providing they can get their batting right.

Originally Posted by flanflinger

If Clark and Lee had both picked up injuries (which is possible with pace bowlers) how would you feel playing against India with Johnson, Hilfenhaus, Tait and MacGill?

I think we would struggle. Clark is the glue that keeps it all together like McGrath did. Lee i never rated all that highly, but the experience factor cannot be ignored. McGill is past it. Tait, while quick, is fairly limited. That said, i reckon Tait would do OK against India, while i think he would struggle against England or South Africa. Johnson and Hilfenhous are quality bowlers, but still inexperienced and have not fully matured yet to carry a test bowling attack.

Right now we would struggle. But by June 2009, the above pace bowlers you mention should be up to the task

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Seamer

Right now we would struggle. But by June 2009, the above pace bowlers you mention should be up to the task

I think Johnson will be, as he will probably be playing Test cricket over the next 18 months. I wonder whether any of the other bowlers will be as well. The problem then will be the same as last time, if Clark, like McGrath, broke down, will Hilfenhaus be able to step up, given that he may not have played more than a handful of Tests? Will Tait be fit enough to play?

It's all very well you guys telling us how good your young paceman could be, but when are we going to actually see how good they are??

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

I think Johnson will be, as he will probably be playing Test cricket over the next 18 months. I wonder whether any of the other bowlers will be as well. The problem then will be the same as last time, if Clark, like McGrath, broke down, will Hilfenhaus be able to step up, given that he may not have played more than a handful of Tests? Will Tait be fit enough to play?

It's all very well you guys telling us how good your young paceman could be, but when are we going to actually see how good they are??

You saw Bracken, Tait and Hogg dominate in the recent WC.

Johnson just had a successful debut against a quality S.L batting linup

You have seen Clarke and Lee.

Apart from Hilfenhouse, they have largely shown what they can do. Not "could do" - "have done"

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Seamer

You saw Bracken, Tait and Hogg dominate in the recent WC.

An ODI tournament is very different from a Test. In ODI's wickets can be gifted by batsmen, in a way they would never think of at Test level.

Bracken is a case in point - great ODI average but looks lost in the Test arena. Until these guys have 10-15 Tests under their belts, to me they remain unproven.

I agree, I know what Lee and Clark can do, but read my post again..

Originally Posted by ME!! :)

It's all very well you guys telling us how good your young paceman could be, but when are we going to actually see how good they are??

I was not referring to Lee or Clark, who are not young pace bowlers! I was talking about Johnson (two tests), Tait (two Tests) and Hilfenhaus (no Tests)


PS at 30 Noffke is not a young paceman either!!!

[greg]

Originally Posted by Seamer

You saw Bracken, Tait and Hogg dominate in the recent WC.

Johnson just had a successful debut against a quality S.L batting linup

One day cricket is totally different to tests and you know it.Broad has done well for us in one dayers but that doesn't mean he will be a success as a test bowler,i personally think he will but time will tell.

As for Johnson being a success against a strong line up,you must be joking.They wheeled Attapattu out of retirement,Jayasuriya has gone and Sangakkara missed one game.Hardly a great line up.I am not saying he won't be a success,i expect he will be,but we need to wait a while before saying he is the dogs wotsits.

[darksideofthemoon]

Originally Posted by Milo

I remember plenty of Australians talking up Williams and Bracken when they debuted during India's last tour. They were both shown wanting at test level, and neither have played a test since.

Hilfenhaus MAY have a good test career, but at the moment it sounds as hopeful as the English were when they said Anderson would lead the attack for England (after his Aussie tour and World cup in 2003) for the next ten years and take 300 test wickets.

Of course there is potential. But he won't be the only player with potential to fade away if he doesn't step up.

I heard this all before.

Anderson was brought into Test cricket too early at 21 with no experience. They should have just let him play ODIs for a couple of years first. After he went back and played county cricket and got a bit of experience he has played as an injury replacement so he gets a game here and a couple there and doesn't always get the new ball. In the warm up games in Australia he took 9 wickets at 22.33 econ 2.85 when he got the new ball but then went into the Tests first change bowler.

[acker]

Originally Posted by Milo

I remember plenty of Australians talking up Williams and Bracken when they debuted during India's last tour. They were both shown wanting at test level, and neither have played a test since.

Hilfenhaus MAY have a good test career, but at the moment it sounds as hopeful as the English were when they said Anderson would lead the attack for England (after his Aussie tour and World cup in 2003) for the next ten years and take 300 test wickets.

My mantra for years not months

Williams to old if even on the radar
Bracken to slow

Hilfenhaus young talent coming through that bowls around 140 kph and does something, not like the half moth eaten slow and old English hippie appropriately named Sidebottom who Bracken looks like Michael Holding compared to.