5 slick Aussie pacemen coming to Ashes 2009 in England

[pie_chucker]

Originally Posted by acker

...slow and old English hippie appropriately named Sidebottom who Bracken looks like Michael Holding ....

Not sure about that. I did fear for Sidebottoms lack of pace in the summer but in the ODI series in Sri Lanka he was getting the ball through at nigh on 90mph. Not bad considering he was bowling on Sri Lankan wickets.

Even Duncan Fletcher admitted that if Sidebottom had shown that pace 4 years ago he'd never have been out of the team.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Broad - 21
Anderson - 25
Plunkett - 22
Bresnan - 22
Mahmood - 25
Tremlett - 26

Another name to add

Cricinfo - Players and Officials - Steven Finn

Steven Finn, 18 years old 6ft 8... averages 22 after 4 games, recently impressed on the U19 series against Pakistan and just been added to the Development Squad

[Quagmire]

Plunkett looks to be good, Anderson looks to be average and the rest like Tremlett & Mahmood would struggle to get a game in Australian state cricket. Thats the reason why Australian cricket is so much better than English, because English cricket has no depth in comparison.

Most wickets
Season 2007 in England - First-class matches

1. Mushtaq Ahmed - 15 mat, 90 wickets at 25.66 (International, Pakistan, 37 years)
2. Ottis Gibson - 15 mat, 80 wickets at 20.75 (International, West Indies, 38 years)
3. Andy Caddick - 16 mat, 75 wickets at 23.10 (39 years old)
4. Danish Kaneria - 13 mat, 74 wickets at 22.20 (International, Pakistan, 26 years)
5. Charl Willoughby - 16 mat, 62 wickets at 24.67 (International, South Africa, 32 years)
6. Tom Lungley - 15 mat, 59 wickets at 26.35 (28 years old)
7. Kabir Ali - 14 mat, 56 wickets at 24.44 (27 years old)
8. Robert Croft - 16 mat, 56 wickets at 33.51 (37 years old)
9. Ant Botha - 16 mat, 55 wickets at 29.43 (International, South African, 31 years)

Yes the young gun bowlers that England have are really coming along nicely, By the look of things Andrew Caddick is next inline for a pace bowlers spot and Robert Croft might be a long shot if Monty finds himself injured.

English First Class season 2007 for the young gun English bowlers

Liam Plunkett - 15 mat, 50 wickets at 30.60
Tim Bresnan - 16 mat, 34 wickets at 34.02
Stuart Broad - 6 mat, 24 wickets at 25.08
James Anderson - 9 mat, 32 wickets at 33.34
Sajid Mahmood - 10 mat, 30 wickets at 31.83
Chris Tremlett - 10 mat, 29 wickets at 33.96

[greg]

Well if you want to be arsey about it we can laugh at Doug Bollinger who has recently been part of your fantastic Aussie academy who played for Worcestershire last season and returned with the fantastic figures of
7 Matches, 16 wickets at 44.56

Fantastic record from the guy who was the 5th highest wickettaker in Pura Cup 2006/07.

[Milo]

He also took 12 wickets in one game last week to add more fuel to an argument that it is easier to take wickets in Pura cup than Div one of the county championship.

[Quagmire]

I was watching him this season and last season in the pura cup and his improvement has been amazing he looks quicker and has learnt to swing the ball. You could say the same thing about Birt who had a poor county season.

I wasnt exactly being arsey I was proving the point that the international and older player dominate county cricket, what have England got to gain by having international players in the league. The young English players are not performing not because they are not up to the standard its the fact that they seem to be fringe players for the internationals. County need to cut down the teams and get rid of the internationals so that England can be more successful.

Aussie bowlers in county cricket last season

Shane Warne - 15 mat, 50 wickets at 29.58
Matthew Nicholson - 12 mat, 44 wickets at 29.29
Andy Bichel - 8 mat, 41 wickets at 20.53
Ashley Noffke - 3 mat, 15 wickets at 22.33
Stuart Clark - 6 mat, 24 wickets at 25.08
Cameron White (more of a part timer) - 12 mat, 20 wickets at 32.75
Steve Magoffin - 1 mat, 2 wickets at 47.00
Doug Bollinger - 7 mat, 16 wickets at 44.56
Jason Gillespie - 12 mat, 23 wickets at 34.91

Its always going to a mixed bag so you can pick out any stat and ignor others, I could talk positively and talk about Bichel or we could go negatively and talk about Gillespies county season.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

I was watching him this season and last season in the pura cup and his improvement has been amazing he looks quicker and has learnt to swing the ball.

so basically some game in County Cricket have improved him!! County Cricket was often seen as a finishing school by overseas countries, maybe it is still the case?

[acker]

Doug Bollinger obviously needs to be bowling on bouncier Australian wickets to have any dramatic effect removing top class batsmen. Your not telling us anything that the Australian selectors have not already taken into consideration with Bollinger. As unlike Hilfenhaus he does not have an ACB contract and is unlikely to be anywhere near as close to selection as Hilfenhaus.

Also the Pura Cup has only been going for about 5-6 weeks so far this season, a bit early to start getting to uppity about Hilfenhaus's performance yet, although Bollinger got 7 for the other day.

I am surprised Tait is being dismissed lightly here, and I am slightly suspicious it may be through fear.

I also argue that Hilfenhaus would be more likely to get a spot in the English test side at the moment, than the Australian where he has Lee, Clark and Johnson in it, and Tait and Nofke alongside him trying to get in it.

I just cant see where you are coming from suggesting the Australian pace attack is weaker "Seamer" it looks as strong if not stronger than ever to me. Let's not forget McGrath was good but is also only one man. And lot of people appear to be putting boots into Brett Lee for what I can see were performances from many years ago.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by acker

I am surprised Tait is being dismissed lightly here, and I am slightly suspicious it may be through fear.

I don't think anyone has dismissed him on ability (the fact that he has done nothing at Test level yet, is because he hasn't played many Tests), but I am concerned that he seems to be prone to injury, and I am worried whether he will be able to play a huge amount of Tests.

To rely on a guy who is on the trainers bench, more than the Cricket field is a problem

Originally Posted by acker

I just cant see where you are coming from suggesting the Australian pace attack is weaker "Seamer" it looks as strong if not stronger than ever to me.

In Seamers defense, I asked the question if Lee and Clark broke down with an injury, how confident would he be with an attack of Johnson (two tests, 7w @ 30 ), Tait (two test, 5 @ 42) and Hilfenhaus (0 Tests)?

The fact is the England have had to play without Harmison, Hoggard and Flintoff, and IMO have not been disgraced. I feel (and it is my opinion) that at this moment in time Australia have the better first choice seam attack, but we (England) have greater depths and better reserves, i.e. Sidebottom 7 tests, 24 @ 28, Anderson 19 Tests, 60 @ 37 and Broad O Tests).

[Rachael]

Any combined England and Australia XI of recent vintage would obviously have included McGrath and Warne... with (of the turn of the century options) any two of Caddick, Gough and Gillespie taking up the next two spots. A combined second XI attack would, on the whole, have been tough: Craig White peaked briefly as a very effective bowler... but the England options would have been Bicknell (who'd probably have been the best but never got much chance to prove it) plus Cork, Defreitas and so on - uninspiring... but better by some margin than the first choice Aussie of the majority of that era (Lee). That said... I'm pretty sure the Aussies could have played better bowlers throughout most of Lee's career (not least Kasprowicz and Bichel).

In the last 2-3-4 years, Warne and McGrath would still be certainties... but the combined XI of choice would perhaps (on peak form) have included Simon Jones and Harmison... but that's on peak form only: Clark, Hoggard, Sidebottom and Panesar might reasonably claim the spots on typical form. Below that lot... Bracken, Flintoff and Lee and Anderson head the uninspiring reserves - a list that should gloss over some England players that did actually get caps (Mahmood, Plunkett).... along with at least one Aussie who (dis)graced a Test match (Tait).

Right now... post McGrath and Warne... the only sure members of a combined XI would be Clark, Hoggard and Panesar. Three players might be in contention for the fourth spot: Sidebottom would be the safe option to back them. Harmison might be the "fingers crossed" option. Johnson might be the most promising option.

Others, like Flintoff, Lee, Bracken, Anderson, Hilfenhaus and Broad (though please NOT Tait) would ensure that a second XI was contested: handy enough names.. but if that group was all you had... you'd perhaps be pretty concerned: they should be fine... but in a game so dominated by batsmen they'd be no real match for the elite attack.

Does that amount to strength in depth? I'm not sure.