What If?

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Yes but Flintoff and Hoggard are a class above Broad and Sidebottom, Flintoff had pace even as a novice, and Hoggard could always make a ball swing, and like Flintoff could keep it tight.

Sidebottom is not currently as accomplished as 2007-model Hoggard... but he's at least as accomplished as 2004/05 Hoggard and there's no doubting that in terms of pace and bounce... and in terms of reverse swing... Sidebottom has the edge. He's also improving at a great rate: give him 12 more months and you may well find he's up in/around the world's top 10 and guaranteed a start in every game.

Re: Broad - he may not be the finished product... but he's already a more sophisticated bowler than Flintoff: get the pair of them bowling at 85 mph and I would expect Broad to be FAR more effective than Flintoff... whose limitations would be massively exposed if he were to slow down even fractionally.

[darksideofthemoon]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Yes but Flintoff and Hoggard are a class above Broad and Sidebottom, Flintoff had pace even as a novice, and Hoggard could always make a ball swing, and like Flintoff could keep it tight.

That would be a fair point if new players were intoduced one at a time in the company of experienced players, but to have a near complete rookie attack IMO is never going to work, and will retard the players develompent.

I agree completely. Two experienced bowlers to bring on a young one but I can't see Harmison teaching anyone when he hasn't sorted out his own bowling at 54 Tests. Hoggard hasn't really bothered until Donald came along and made that point. Hoggard came out recently saying that now he has to help the younger bowlers.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Seamer

There is Ashley Noffke who doesn't seem likely for a baggy green berth. Does he qualify as an Englishman? You could maybe borrow him.

I would love to see Noffke play test cricket even if it is for the enemy, he has played good cricket for a long time.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Yes but Flintoff and Hoggard are a class above Broad and Sidebottom, Flintoff had pace even as a novice, and Hoggard could always make a ball swing, and like Flintoff could keep it tight.

That would be a fair point if new players were intoduced one at a time in the company of experienced players, but to have a near complete rookie attack IMO is never going to work, and will retard the players develompent.

First of all I agree with you, it is best to introduce players in to an established attack, which is what Australia seem to do so well, and in a perfect world Broad would make his debut with a fully fit Hoggard, Flintoff and Harmison to support him.

However, this is not an ideal world, Flintoff is on the long term injury list, Hoggard is struggling and Harmison has his own demons to fight. The fact is that in the last Test Anderson, Hoggard and Sidebottom were (as predicted) a little too one dimensional and so we needed to make a change.

So Broad gets a game, and the fact is that the quicker we get this guy the experince at Test level, then I am sure it will be of long term benefit to the team.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

So Broad gets a game, and the fact is that the quicker we get this guy the experince at Test level, then I am sure it will be of long term benefit to the team.

And he's begun positively, troubling the batsmen and not giving much away.

[Speedboy Salesman]

but Dar kept calling him up for scuffing up the wicket with his follow up.... can anybody explain how bad he was doing it?

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

So Broad gets a game, and the fact is that the quicker we get this guy the experince at Test level, then I am sure it will be of long term benefit to the team.

I wish him well, but it's a shame that he has had to start his career in these circumstances, like the young bowlers in Australia is a big ask to expect him to carry the attack.

This is why in Englands unreal circumstances I have urged that the selectors should have brought an experienced player as cover.

If the other bowlers fail and he also gets carted - I fail to see how that will benefit the team, or even the bowler.

Looking at the England bandage brigade, I hope Moores and the selectors learn and rotate their players so as to avoid burn out.