What If?

[Ernest]

What if Flintoff - Harmison - Hoggard (who's back has troubled him twice this year) - Trescothick - Simon Jones, and Vaughan's knee goes again, are no longer available in a years time.

What will be the make up of the England team?.

Who will replace Flintoff and Harmison on a like for like basis?.

And who would captain the side?, this scenario is not impossibe as Vaughan out of the list above is the only one likely to be playing in the second test in Sri Lanka.

Even if one or more on that list manage another year or so, can England put a team together which would be successfull within five years?.

I doubt Flintoff will ever be the same - his age is against him keep missing full seasons, and the most optimistic of us would agree that Simon Jones will never play for England again.

It's a lot of players with question marks against their names at the same time.

Originally Posted by BBC

Hoggard batted in obvious pain on Wednesday - {{{{and the main worry is that his injury appears to be similar to the back problem that saw him miss this year's home Test series with India}}}.

The bowling options would seem to be:-

Tremlett
Broad
Sidebottom
Mahmood
Plunkett
Panesar
Swann

[darksideofthemoon]

Originally Posted by Ernest

What if Flintoff - Harmison - Hoggard (who's back has troubled him twice this year) - Trescothick - Simon Jones, and Vaughan's knee goes again, are no longer available in a years time.

Flintoff - Broad
Harmison - Tremlett
Trescothick - Carberry
Vaughan - Shah
Hoggard - Anderson
Jones - Plunkett

[greg]

We would be stuffed Ern as the likes of Anderson,Plunkett and Mahmood have already shown they aren't a patch on the players they would be replacing unless they improve dramatically.

I guess we could be looking to change the balance of the side long term if Rashid develops quickly as he could perhaps become a replacement for Flintoff in that he would be the all rounder.

Harmison needs replacing anyway so hopefully Tremlett or Broad can become good bowlers,they have shown as much promise so far as Harmison and Jones did in their debut summers in 2002 and yes i do know Broad is yet to play a test but he has shown enough about him one day cricket to know he won't be a wasted experiment.

Vaughan being out would be a big blow but Collingwood would take over as captain and Strauss can come back to open so no real disaster there.

Trescothick and Jones have been out for far too long to count but Hoggard would be a killer blow if he and Flintoff were not able to get their fitness back it would hurt us more than we could imagine.

[Rachael]

In terms of England's strength in depth I cannot recall a better time in a generation:

Openers: Vaughan, Strauss, Cook (with Bell capable of moving up) - possibly Tresco

Middle order: Bell, Pietersen, Collingwood, Shah, Joyce

Wicket-keeping: Read, Foster, Ambrose, Mustard and the obvious pretender

All-rounders: Flintoff, Broad, Swann, Sidebottom

Specialist bowlers: Panesar, Hoggard, Harmison, Anderson, Tremlett (possibly Jones)

Fringe: Hildreth, Rashid, Bresnan, Davies

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Rachael

All-rounders: Flintoff, Broad, Swann, Sidebottom

Ha ha! Not even the most biased Notts fan would refer to Sid as an all-rounder! He bats at ten or eleven for Notts! Broad may get there one day but he sure isn't there yet.

England has no obvious replacement for Flintoff, no surprise as there aren't many of his sort around full stop.

[Rachael]

Few players in the history of the game have been good enough to get in as a batsman OR a bowler... but of the bowlers... those I mentioned know enough about batting to be regarded as lower-middle order players rather than as tail-end bunnies.

Sidebottom's just played at No 8, and did just fine. Broad would be stronger, as would Swann, but none of that trio should be listed alongside the likes of Giddens, Mullally, Tufnell and Malcolm! I certainly don't think a batsman has to be as accomplished as Giles to bat at 8.

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

England has no obvious replacement for Flintoff, no surprise as there aren't many of his sort around full stop.

There is Ashley Noffke who doesn't seem likely for a baggy green berth. Does he qualify as an Englishman? You could maybe borrow him.

[acker]

Originally Posted by Seamer

There is Ashley Noffke who doesn't seem likely for a baggy green berth. Does he qualify as an Englishman? You could maybe borrow him.

Seamer I am reporting you to the ASIO hotline.....thats just downright subversive.

[Gremlin]

To be honest the talent is there, the trick is to develop them that extra step to become test players. It's hard to quantify what that magic ingredient is to turn a talented individual into a test class performer, but it surely must exist.

I remember vividly a tour of India when the front line bowlers were injured and all commentators were nervous that the bowling attack was lead by Hoggard and Flintoff with a handful of caps between them... they turned out ok despite all the respeced guru's fears. My point is that all international cricketers start out unproven talent, they need the appropriate handling to become test performers.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Gremlin

I remember vividly a tour of India when the front line bowlers were injured and all commentators were nervous that the bowling attack was lead by Hoggard and Flintoff with a handful of caps between them... they turned out ok despite all the respeced guru's fears

Yes but Flintoff and Hoggard are a class above Broad and Sidebottom, Flintoff had pace even as a novice, and Hoggard could always make a ball swing, and like Flintoff could keep it tight.

Originally Posted by Gremlin

My point is that all international cricketers start out unproven talen[...] they need the appropriate handling to become test performers.

That would be a fair point if new players were intoduced one at a time in the company of experienced players, but to have a near complete rookie attack IMO is never going to work, and will retard the players develompent.