Zimbabwe tour 2009

[greg]

It looks like the government are going to take a stand against Zimbabwe and refuse the cricket team from coming to England in 2009.

As if there wasn't enough controversial stuff to discuss at present and this looms up.I can see the governments point but some will say that sport and politics should be kept seperate.

Goodness knows what ICC will make of this?

[Paoli]

Hasn't happened since the Apartheid days that a team was refused entry into a country. Hope it doesn't happen.

[Statto]

I think it should be considered as the same as visiting the country. If we aren't prepared to tour Zimbabwe because it "shows support" for Mugabe's regime etc. then we shouldnt be showing them support by inviting them to England. At least it appears we now have a PM taking a consistent stance on one matter (still not sure about most others). Coupled with that I'd rather play against a side capable of producing an interesting game instead of the current one which is no more fit for test cricket (or ODIs in all honesty) than it was when it was kicked out.

[Occasional Fan]

The UK government can't legally stop England cricketers from touring Zimbabwe. The ECB has no spine to withdraw from such tours as we saw a couple of years ago. Thus, even though the UK government and the vast majority of people in the UK find the Zimbabwean government and President abhorrent, the English team toured.

For the reverse event, the UK government clearly does have the legal capability to bar Zimbabwe's cricketers from entering the country. The government and the vast majority of the UK population continue to find Zimbabwe's government and President abhorrent, and the UK population has elected a government to make difficult decisions for it. If the UK government thinks it is right to ban Zimbabwe's tour as a protest against the abhorrent government and President of that country, it should do so. If I were a member of parliament, I would be voting for such a ban.

What will the ICC think? It doesn't matter. If the ECB is unable to fulfil a tour commitment because of government action, there will be no question of compensation under the ICC's rules (though contractual relations with ZC might determine otherwise: that is something on which I cannot comment). The ICC has said, however, that if Zimbabwe is prevented from participating in the ICC Twenty20 World Cup in England, it will take the competition elsewhere, as it requires all test teams to be allowed to play. That's fine and is the ICC's privilege.

To be clear on my own view: I would ban all tours to the UK by Zimbabwean sports teams until further notice. I'd consider giving further notice once Mr Mugabe has resigned or died and once his odious henchmen have stepped aside, and not a moment sooner.

[Ninjaman]

What have Zimbabwean sports teams done to England?

How does banning them help fight Mugabe?

One half of the current Wimbledon Ladies Double Champions is Zimbabwean (Cara Black) would you ban her from playing at Wimbledon in 2008?

About five years ago now, along with others, Britain after much lying, stretching of the truth and wilful deception
embarked on the largest assault of a single country the world has ever known to fulfill its part in a crime conceived by think tanks.

Would you have been happy for any teams to not tour England or refuse them entry because of that?

Mugabe has been head of government since 1980.

At what point did he become "odious" enough to start banning Zimbabwean cricket teams.

If Cuba were to be merged into the West Indies tomorrow, would you ban the West Indies from touring?

[engssmoothcriminal]

Originally Posted by Ninjaman

About five years ago now, along with others, Britain after much lying, stretching of the truth and wilful deception
embarked on the largest assault of a single country the world has ever known to fulfill its part in a crime conceived by think tanks.

Would you have been happy for any teams to not tour England or refuse them entry because of that?

Given that the Blair government had absolutely no involvement in the running of the ECB and Blair himself at no stage during his tenure had any high profile position within the ECB. Given that money the ECB received from the ICC was never siphoned off away from cricket in order to fund the Blair regime. Given that none of England's top players had to go without pay for lengthy periods (and are still owed considerable sums of money) because of said theft by the government. Given that at no stage was the England selection process compromised by the government demanding that less talented players be selected ahead of proven international players on grounds of race. Given that no players who complained about the ECB or even the political situation in the UK were hounded out of the country..................sorry do you want me to go on?


England can use the sport and politics are separate entity's argument. Mugabe and his cronies at the ZCU simply can't and it's high time that the sporting world belatedly took a stand on this issue. It's about 5-10 years to late for Zimbabwe and a sporting ban won't remotely have the same impact as it did in South Africa where sport is that much more important but it would be a start.

Just a shame we'll have to lose the 20/20 world cup as the spineless (insert swear word of your choice) at the ICC don't have the balls to stand up to the Asian block who don't want to lose that all important Zimbabwean vote .

[first change]

Interesting one, this. I did a lot of work on the sports boycott of South Africa, which played a minor role in the removal of apartheid. Morally, should we be playing Zimbabwe? Of course not. But Mugabe's regime is not apartheid and, vile as it is, we should recognise that difference. Mugabe runs an odious regime, but where is he on the scale of vicious dictators? Worse than the regime in Saudi or Burma/Myanmar or DRC or China or what's happening in Kenya now - perhaps, perhaps not. But we still trade with Zimbabwe, people are free to go there on holiday should they so wish and I believe we still have diplomatic relations. So why should sport raise the moral flag on behalf of the Government? If we ban trade with Zim, I'd be delighted if we banned their unfortunate cricketers, but we won't do that.

The financial implications of a ban on Zim should not be underestimated. If the players are refused admission, the Twenty20 World Cup will almost certainly be moved, which could be financially disastrous for the ECB. If this happens, the Government must bale cricket out.

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by Ninjaman

What have Zimbabwean sports teams done to England?

How does banning them help fight Mugabe?

Specifically nothing. Banning them helps in the same way that banning South Africa contributed to the downfall of an earlier evil regime. If nothing else, it's a symbolic gesture, which has significance even if only symbolic.

On your other points: Cara Black - yes, I would ban her as well; teams banning or boycotting England in response to the outrageous Iraqi war - yes, I would certainly back anyone who chose to do that.

Mr Mugabe became odious enough many years ago when he changed the constitution or disregarded it in order to prolong his term of office. There are many other cases where this has also happened, including in the cricketing world, and it would not bother me if similar protest action was taken against all of them.

I don't know enough about Cuba to comment, I'm afraid.

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by first change

So why should sport raise the moral flag on behalf of the Government?

As we saw two years ago, sport won't raise a moral flag. The ECB wouldn't recognise a morally correct case if it came up and hit them on the nose. This is why the government is now reportedly considering banning the Zimbabwean tour. It would be much better if cricket would sort its own house out and if the ECB would withdraw its invitation. But it won't. So the government has to get involved where it can so that somehow our nation can hold its head high. The government can get involved in inbound tours because it can ban people from entering the country, but it can't ban Brits from leaving when they want, which is why it was powerless to stop the England tour of Zimbabwe.

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by Occasional Fan

Specifically nothing. Banning them helps in the same way that banning South Africa contributed to the downfall of an earlier evil regime. If nothing else, it's a symbolic gesture, which has significance even if only symbolic.

If it specifically does nothing and is only symbolic, then why do it?

And why choose only one country (that means very little in the scheme of international relations) to boycott?

Will Britain not be attending the Olympics in China this year to protest their far worse human rights record?

Until people stop being selective over sports boycotts, then they should not bother having them.

That's all I am saying.

If my post's tome seemed confrontational, I do apologise OF.

I just hate this silly idea that boycotting a sports side and the wishy washy selective issue of WHO people choose to boycott and over WHAT. By highlighting, the Iraq War I merely chose to show how nearly everybody could find issue with another country not to play them in a sport.

The United States could invade and bomb a new country every year on a whim and kill people in their thousands and I bet you not once would the British government even think about boycotting one of their teams.

Surely, it would be better to invite the Zimbabwe team, broadcast the games and invite people who can safely in this country protest against the government and have access to a world stage to do so.

Would do far more for awareness IMO.

On your other points: Cara Black - yes, I would ban her as well; teams banning or boycotting England in response to the outrageous Iraqi war - yes, I would certainly back anyone who chose to do that.

Why the need to ban Cara Black? I thought it was all Mugabe and his "henchmen's" fault?

She has done nothing. So she won't be able to play tennis for her country at Wimbledon. I'm sure Mugabe will lose sleep over that. During the ban on South Africa, did a few SA sportsman not change nationality and play for England and Australia and circumvent such boycotts?

Is Andy Flower not a part of England's coaching team? I guess you would fire him?

Would you kick all those other Zimbabweans now playing county cricket out?

Up until recently, a young lady whose father has close ties with Mugabe was actually dating the Prince Harry.

Don't remember anyone not allowing her to get into Britain.