Our site was down recently for a number of hours to move our database to a new webhost and server. However, after the move I checked the download speed of the new site and found it was much slower than we currently have. I enlisted the aid of a guy called Mark to move the database across rather than get the new webhosting company to do it because I wanted to discuss some related issues with an independent person. Here is the transcript of our conversations:

Admin: hi Mark - Mike here
Mark: Hi Michael
Admin: hi Mark
Admin: thanks for replying
Mark: Sure, not a problem. How can I help you.
Admin: our current webhost is KDA services: http://www.kdawebservices.com/index
Admin: based in the UK
Mark: Ok.
Admin: the webhost I'd like to move my forum to is http://www.vistapages.com/hosting/
Admin: KDA is in London; Vistapages is in Toronto
Admin: Vistapages will give me a better package deal and they seem to have all the support features I need
Mark: Yes, I am familiar with them, Never heard of kdawebservices
Admin: are you experienced with moving forums to new webhosts?
Mark: Absolutely, you'll be my 5th this week
Admin: incredible!
Mark: Yes, hosting is always a issue with vbulletin
Admin: Can I give you my control panel details so you can have a look around?
Mark: particularly on large forums using shared hosting.
Mark: Sure.
Mark: what is your website url?
Mark: for your forum.
Admin: www.world-a-team.com
Admin: KDA account login: *************
Mark: Alot of sports forums this week too, that I have worked on...Something going on I don't know about in the sports world?
Admin: Login: ******** Password: ********
Mark: Invalid password for user worldateam
Admin: yep - I'll get it in a sec
Mark: Ok
Admin: Try **********
Mark: yes, that works
Admin: I'll get the database login details
Admin: ************************
Admin: User Name: ********** Password: **********
Mark: Ok, you have not set up an account with your new host, correct?
Admin: select Server Choice: *********************
Admin: Correct
Mark: How long until you do?
Admin: There are some issues to resolve first
Admin: Domain name is one
Mark: Whats the issue with the domain? ownership? how to change DNS?
Admin: first click here: https://billing.vistapages.com/order/order_start.php
Admin: there are 3 options Domain Name Option:
Admin: which option do I select? what do they mean?
Mark: so you use number 3
Mark: who is your domain registered with?
Admin: just a sec
Admin: http://www.acmeinternet.com/cgi-bin/...I3.x=12&I3.y=9
Mark: Sure, they use Enom (They are a Enom domain reseller). As long as you have the log in details for your domain control panel, choose option number three.
Admin: thanks - other issue with domain is whether to change it to world-a-team.com/cricket-forum because I want to setup a couple of other applications like a Content Management System which Vistapages supplies I think
Admin: I thought it might be better long-term to have the CMS be the main home page and the forum be a sub-page
Admin: I want to start publishing articles
Admin: about A team cricket and I want the articles page to be the main home page
Admin: the other option is to leave the forum as the main page and have the CMS as a sub-page
Mark: Well, here is something to think about from someone in the domain industry. All of your Search engine links are to you forum located at that domain. If you move your forum now to a subdirectory, you will loose all those links and A) visitors coming to your site via a search engine will get 404 errors, or B) even if your make a 404 error capture, they will get sent to your homepage instead of the information they were seeking.
Admin: consider that Google has already indexed quite a few pages with the current URL
Admin: thought that might be the case - let's keep it as is then
Mark: You can use vbadvanced as your CMS, and it integrates with vbulletin. You can set it as your homepage, and the forum, and vbadvanced will bender the regular url, not in a subdirectory.
Mark: you can see vbadvanced here: http://www.beaututes.com/portal.php
Mark: all of the center blocks can be articles.
Mark: If you have more articles, you can make a navigation menu linking them.
Admin: Mark, the forum link on that page doesn't work for me
Mark: can try this one http://www.ausfootball.com/portal.php
Mark: or this one http://www.irishleagueforums.net/
Admin: vbadvanced seems to put mostly forum info on that page
Admin: I was hoping to find a CMS system that was geared towards articles, photos and advertising if necessary
Mark: Well, yes, I suppose it is, however you can make whatever page you want in it. If your going to have a library of articles, then it's probably not the best choice then.
Admin: I think I prefer to have a separate database setup linked to the CMS - I was hoping vistapages would do that for me
Admin: Should that be on a separate domain?
Mark: You can set it up on a different domain, under a subdirectory... but, I wouldn't move the forum from its current location, esspecially if you get alot of traffic from search engines.
Admin: Di I need a separate account for each domain?
Mark: no, it appears that they allow up to 10 domains on one account.
Admin: VistaPak allows 10 hosted domains
Mark: sharing the same hosting plan.
Admin: should I do that - create a new domain for the CMS?
Admin: if so I can do that separately after the forum move
Admin: seems like a good idea to keep them separate
Mark: Well, as far as time and cost, the move would take about 2 hours + or -. I can do it as soon as your hosting is set up. Cost would be $30 provided there are no special mods that would need changed / reinstalled due to the path changes from one hosting account to another, which typically isn't the case. If it is, then it would cost $15.00 per mod with that problem, ie: arcades, chats, etc...
Admin: I'll choose option 3 and proceed with opening an account
Admin: the other issue is the database
Admin: have I enough server space to create a backup?
Mark: I have already made backups.
Admin: Should I clear out the postindex table to reduce the size of the database?
Mark: no, don't do anything to the old board until the new one is up...
Admin: Once on vistapages server should I use MySQL Fulltext search instead of vbulletin search?
Mark: Why would you alter the search feature. I would stick with vbulletin's search.
Admin: discussions on vb.com reckon that fulltext is less server intensive and necessary for large sites
Admin: I guess I shouldn't worry about it right now
Admin: I don't need worldat_aj - that was a test database setup to develop a fantasy game application - it can be deleted now
Mark: Ok
Admin: worldat_forum is the only forum to migrate to vistapages
Admin: I'll contact you when the vistapages account is setup
Admin: doing that now
Mark: Sounds good. If I am not logged into messenger (depending on how long it takes) just send me an email to ************* asking me to log in. I have problems working with Instant messages popping up on my screen every 2 minutes
Admin: before you go - can you just stay with me until I filled out this form?
Admin: What's this? Please ensure that you change DNS to DNS1.VISTAPAGES.COM & DNS2.VISTAPAGES.COM
Mark: sure, I'll be here working... (I don't have many on Yahoo Messenger.
Mark: Yes that is just telling you to change nameservers for your domain to point to theirs.
Mark: their server
Mark: DNS = Domain Name Server
Admin: so what do I enter in domain name field - is it world-a-team and then com in the second field?
Mark: I can't see what your doing, is it asking for domain name?
Mark: NM, I see. Yes
Admin: yes - under the three options its asking to enter my domain name
Mark: world-a-team
Mark: then the drop down is set to .com
Admin: but it has two fields with a dot between
Mark: yes, type COM in the second field
Mark: world-a-team in the first
Admin: okay
Admin: okay - now I have to give them all the payment info - I'll let you know when that's done
Mark: ok, I'll brb in a minute
Admin: okay
Mark: back...
Admin: okay - just processing the payment at the moment
Mark: Sure, tyt... I'll be here if you need anything.
Admin: thanks - payment is sent - I'll contact you when I have the control panel login info for vistapages
Mark: Ok, I'll leave this messenger on today. BTW, I am in Maryland USA, and it is now 11:19am. I'll be online til 5:00pm my time, then back at 8:00pm my time.
Admin: great - thanks Mark - can I forward you my first email from vistapages?
Mark: Sure.
Mark: You can forward all info to *************, that is also my paypal for reference. If I don't here from you or you go out and want me to go ahead with the move, just drop me an email.
Mark: and I'll take care of it.
Admin: the email is on its way
Mark: Ok, thanks Michael, I appreciate the opportunity to work for you.......email received.

__________________
Administrator

Admin: I'll send you a payment via Pay Pal now
Mark: Ok, last thing before you go. Do you have the access info to see your existing site prior to your domain resolving there? IE: the ip address
Admin: I'll send $30 to start
Mark: with your current host, it's not the same as vistapages. with vistapages, it would be ***********.
Mark: Sure, thats fine. I don't think it will be any more unless you know something I don't
Admin: lol - well, I am trying to build up my site and if you think you can assist in anyway then please let me know
Mark: Well, I have a programmer right now writing me a great promotional script for vbulletin (Unfortunately, it requires
3.5.2). But the script will allow a member to type in thier MSN, Yahoo, or GMAIL account name, import their contact list, and email EVERYONE on their contact list a invitation to come join YOUR forum.
Mark: should be done in the next few days, but depending on my cost, I am not sure at this time what I will be charging for
it.
Admin: sounds good - My board is hacked which is why I haven't upgraded - is it worth doing the upgrade?
Mark: You know, I really like the old vbulletin version. The only thing is, if you want all the goodies that are coming out, they are written for 3.5.3.
Mark: So it's a personal preference
Admin: I see - FTP details following...
Admin: To access your account by FTP, use:
Host Name: **********************
Login: **********
Password: ***********
Port 21
using IE: ****************************************
Mark: isn't that to your existing account?
Admin: I have the IP address as stated in admin cp
Mark: Yes, thats shared, so it will just take you to their server page.
Admin: ****************
Admin: is that what you're after?
Admin: *********************
Admin: Host Name ***************************, Port number ****
Mark: usually they send you in a welcome email the correct URL to see your site before resolution of the nameserver. Not a big deal, you have the FTP admin panel, etc.
Admin: They're the only IP addresses I know about
Admin: I'll see if I can find it
Mark: it's ok, no worry...if you find it, great, if not... thats fine...
Admin: Please understand that it can take 24-72 hours before DNS servers across world are updated with the new name servers.
In the meantime, your website can be accessed with the following URL:
****************************
Mark: Thats it, thank you
Mark: Well, I need to get some work done. Just email me the new info, and I will get started...
Admin: okay - payment on way
Mark: Thank you.
Admin: I'm taking a break to do a couple of things but will leave this window open
Admin: Hi Mark, should I close the site down to stop people from posting? I don't want to receive any complaints for lost posts.
Mark: Sorry, had stepped out. Yes, that would be a good idea.
Admin: okay give me a minute
Admin: I'd like to indicate on the message approx how long will the site be closed
Mark: Should only be about a hour however DNS propagation can take up to 72 hours (the change of domain to the new server)
but ussually takes less than 4 hours...
Mark: Do you know Steve?
Admin: DNS propagation means that the site can't be accessed until the propagation is complete - is that right?
Mark: well, during the propagation, you may or may not be able to access your EXISTING site, and WILL NOT be able to access
the new site location until complete.
Mark: Ussually what I do is
Mark: place a text file at the old site saying it will be down during the move...
Mark: when the propagation is complete, the site will be up and running, because it will be in the new server, thus they are not seeing the text file at the old server.
Mark: files have been moved over.. http://vps103.vistapages.com/~worlmcom/ is the address until propagation... I am importing the database now.
Mark: so you will see an error.
Admin: can I put that address on the text message?
Admin: for members to see the site?
Mark: I wouldn't unless you want a 1000 emails regarding the database error.
Mark: possibly after the database import, however I am not sure the site will function 100% until propagation.
Admin: Hi Mark, I'd like to update the closed site message with the latest status. How are things coming along?
Mark: Slowly but surely. I have to manually cut and paste the database in a little bit at a time. Downside to phpmyadmin is it has a set timeout limit to 3 minutes, which is only good for a 5MB database file. So I have to break your 200MB file into 5MB chunks . But, it is going fine...
Admin: Oh, my goodness... that explains why the vbulletin recommendation is to use Telnet
Mark: Yes, that would be correct
Admin: My host hasn't given me Telnet access. Should I have asked the vistapages tech people to do the transfer? Would they have run into the same problem?
Mark: Well, if your old host was cpanel, they probably would have done it, but since they were not... most likely no... It's fine. If you change the nameservers over now, then I should be done when the site resolves.
Mark: Do you know how to do that?
Admin: tell me please
Mark: do you have the login information for your domains?
Mark: domain
Mark: the domain manager
Admin: not sure - you mean in the KDA control panel?
Mark: Well, your domain is registered there, but actually through enom. They may allow the change through them but I am not sure. I'll go there to see if there is a domain manager, and a place to change the nameservers.
Admin: okay
Admin: Hi Mark, I said I would provide an update every hour. How are things going?
Mark: Still going, Over 3 million lines in the database....
Admin: what % of the database left to transfer?
Mark: That depends, File size wise more than 50% left to do, however alot of it is data that can be added even once the forum is up. So I am down to a few lines before I see if the site comes up....
Mark: Most of this is postindex stuff
Admin: I warned you about the postindex table - lol
Mark: Yes, you did. I just haven't come accross a forum your size, having that much in the post index..
Admin: did you know about the 3 min timeout beforehand?
Mark: Yes, I did. I do all my moves this way.
Admin: I was thinking about clearing out the postindex and re-indexing with a longer list of exempt words in searchwords.php
Admin: to reduce the size of the postindex table
Mark: You can do that and see how much it reduces the database size... if it's drastic enough, it will be worth it.
Admin: the tradeoff is that posting may take longer because searchwords.php will be larger
Mark: Well, if you have the time, then I'll just do it this way and get it all back the way it was.
Admin: are you sure you want to press on?
Mark: Sure, I don't accept a job without finishing it
Admin: okay - thanks
Mark: If I disappear for a bit, it's only because I'm driving home from the office...
Admin: okay
Mark: Hey Michael, getting ready to head home. I put in a ticket to see if they will import the DB while I'm driving home. I placed it on the server for them to access, so maybe we'll get lucky, and when I get home I can finish up the setup quickly. You may get a ticket email from them.
Admin: okay - thanks
Mark: Sure I figured it wouldn't hurt
Admin: Ticket ID: KCG-973297
Mark: That would be it. Ok, I'll be back in a little bit.
Admin: Ticket ID: KCG-973297

__________________
Administrator

Mark: Good morning
Admin: good morning Mark
Mark : Yes, I got home, got the site up and your were no where to be found
Admin: I have been testing the new site download speed and comparing with old site and new site is much slower
Admin: I have microstats hack to compare, plus when I use search function for "Flintoff" the results are returned much slower on new site
Admin: In addition, I have had the new site checked for speed by various online speed checkers and the new site takes longer to download from different locations around the world
Mark: Have you checked the server load on the new site?
Admin: Yes - using microstats only
Mark: So, your saying the server loads are higher on the new server as compared to the old server.
Admin: home page of old site: 0.48 : 0.59 : 0.57
Admin: home page of new site: 10.51 : 9.06 : 8.18
Mark: That is extremely high
Mark: not the highest I've seen, but most of my sites are around 2.0 to 3.0
Mark: Well, I just found out why
Admin: All the indications point to a slow site
Mark: That server Vistapages has you on hosts 680 websites
Admin: I can give you more if you like
Admin: how do you know?
Mark: http://www.whois.sc/64.86.165.100
Mark: notice the server location
Admin: I was told the server was in Toronto
Mark: I thought we moved to a Canadian host (I could be thinking of someone else too)
Mark: Exactly.
Admin: what is this IP:64.86.165.100?
Mark: That is your new IP address of your site
Admin: yep - I see - how do I check my current server?
Admin: my old server?
Mark: http://www.whois.sc/world-a-team.com
Mark: Hosts 209 websites
Mark: Located in Britain, or that vicinity
Mark: never blacklisted
Mark: unlike the new server, which was blacklisted, then cleared just in December
Admin: that's interesting - this is a real eye opener
Mark: So, you can see what kind of factors cause speed issues... It's not always YOUR site, unless you are on a dedicated server, then it probably is
Admin: I agree - thought something was amiss - they said that my site wouldn't be noticeably slower on the Toronto servers
Admin: where do we take this? do I cancel the account and look for an alternative host?
Mark: Well, what is it you are trying to accomplish? speed?
Admin: that is the primary objective of any forum given that the membership (load on server) and database will get bigger
Mark: how many active members do you have?
Admin: possibly 300, about 50 - 70 members visit a day
Admin: can a server be shut down or blocked when its blacklisted?
Mark: Well, what the blacklist status means is someone has hosted a site that has either stored warez, send large amounts of spam, etc
Mark: the server can't be shut down but those accounts are... it just takes a while for them to get noticed
Admin: but our site would not be accessible?
Mark: which is a pain for everyone else on it.
Mark: Well, funny, because at this moment, I am also chatting (literally right now) with a client in Australia that is having the same issue
Admin: wow
Mark: the problem with both of you is you have large boards - Not HUGE, but they are large
Mark: and vbulletin is a hog on a server. Imagine if 100 of the 680 sites are running vbulletin!
Admin: I have seen boards with a million members and hundreds online at the same time
Admin: they load quicker than my new site
Mark: All on dedicated servers (and not just one server). Realize, at 10,000 active daily users, your have to be on a dedicated server
Mark: some of these sites have 10 servers; yes, 10
Admin: wow, the costs must be prohibitive
Mark: you should check out big-boards.com sometime. it shows everyones server requirements
Mark: sites with 1,000,000 members are making plenty enough money to pay for those servers, believe me.
Admin: do you know something about internet marketing?
Mark: I know basically the same thing you probably know, how to run advertising campaigns, etc etc .. things that all cost money...
Admin: yep - I can run Google ads but I need to find advertisers
Admin: to help offset the server, webhost and google ads costs
Admin: anyway - I guess I should do a ticket regarding the site speed or cancel the account
Mark: I would just cancel and ask for a refund to be honest
Mark: if they are telling you the server is someplace it's not
Mark: then that isn't a good sign to begin with
Admin: should I give them a chance to improve the download speed?
Mark: That is up to you really. You could tell them you are not happy with the server loads, and that your on a server with 680 websites. but they are going to tell you to go dedicated.
Mark: because after all that is what shared hosting is and why it is so cheap
Admin: http://www.vistapages.com/whyvista/infrastructure.php
Mark: Oh yea, look at www.ktmweb.com
Mark: after you look at that, look at www.maxpcs.com
Admin: Our state-of-the-art hosting infrastructure is the backbone of our service and is located in the heart of Downtown Toronto
Mark: click on Our network
Admin: what are you saying?
Admin: KTMWeb Hosting Services' Network Operations Center resides in Houston, Texas.
Mark: well, hell you can tell both sites are the same right... two different owners... I guess what I am pointing out is in webhosting, what you see on their site, and what actually exist can be two different things.
Mark: both of those host I just showed you are some guy in his house
Admin: yes - they look identical
Mark: fake pictures; fake text; copied from someone else
Admin: scary sh*t!
Admin: I'm getting rather depressed now - do you know of a reputable webhost?
Mark: I'm not saying that vistapages is fake, but when you look at the wording, their Backbone is located in Toronto... you don't know if thats just a hub, with servers spread all across the country or what....
Mark: Hm
Mark: Well Site5.com is very reputable.
Mark: Steve. the guy you spoke to the other day.... recognize the name?
Mark: I moved him to site5.
Mark: and three others there
Mark: but a few got servers that were not being overly used
Mark: and a few didn't
Admin: I see
Mark: The best thing to do
Mark: Is ask around... and before you actually get the hosting, ask to test it's speed, or at least get the ip address of the server your going to be put on so you can check it
Admin: good idea
Admin: is it possible to re-open the old site now or have we gone too far down the road?
Mark: No, no DNS has been changed... the site stands there the same as if we did not touch it.
Mark: you can open it right back up
Admin: okay, Mark, I think I'd better do that because my members must be very anxious by now to get online
Admin: I'll re-open the old site and cancel my account with vistapages
Mark: As far as advertising... I just hired a coder make a invitation script with a messenger service importer for me...
Mark: www.foruminstallation.com/test/invites.php
Mark: username test
Mark: password user
Mark: Well, check this out... it is the ONLY mod of it's kind for vbulletin
if you put your gmail, yahoo or hotmail username and password in, it will import your contact list, and let you send invites to everyone on it
Admin: I'll talk to you about that soon, Mark. Thanks for your help and advice. If I find another suitable webhost how
should I do the database transfer so that we don't run into timeout problems like yesterday?
Mark: well, just let me know when your ready. I uploaded the database file to the server, put a support ticket in and asked them to import it for me, was done in 15 minutes
Admin: is that the way you'll go with everyone in future?
Mark: then it's just a matter of changing file paths, settings and permissions on the actual vbulletin files....
Mark: Hm sure if the host will do that. Some will, some won't.
Admin: sounds good to me
Mark: most hosts with cpanel will
Admin: so I should go with a host with cpanel?
Mark: cpanel is my personal preference, and simple to use...
Mark: So yes, that would be my suggestion
Admin: any other hosting features I should consider? Vistapages seemed to have the necessary hardware and software to support my forum
Mark: http://www.thehostingchart.com/?igojo=1&mej=406
Admin: PHP version; MySQL version; etc
Mark: It's always best to ask the host if they are running the latest versions of Mysql, php, etc
Mark: and how fast they update on new releases
Admin: I saw a similar chart with Vistapages top ranked
Admin: thanks
Mark: hey, also go to http://www.big-boards.com/
Mark: visit some of the sites to see their speed
Mark: then use www.whois.sc
Admin: http://web-hosting-services.topchoicereviews.com/
Mark: to see who the host is
Mark: http://www.big-boards.com/servers.php
Admin: http://bestwebhostingreviews.com/
Admin: There's alot of these so-called top 10 reviews
Admin: they could be scams as well
Mark: I know... just comes down to doing some homework
Admin: okay - will do - thanks again for your advice - hope to deal with you again
Mark: Sure, it's the least I can do. I'm sorry the hosting was a issue...
Admin: I'll cancel the account and let you know what conversation transpires
Mark: Would be interested in hearing about it.
Admin: No worries - have a nice day - will be in touch. Bye
Mark: you too.

__________________
Administrator

Please help me establish the download speed of the other site by logging on to each site and copying the following info:

Near the bottom of the home page you'll find some statistics: Page generated etc and DEBUG etc. Please copy those stats as shown below. Also perform a search using the word "flintoff" as the search word. The time that the search took is on the top-right of the results page. Do this on both sites to compare the search speed. Please post you stats to this thread and state which country or city you are located in. My location is London which is near our present server. The other server, we believe, is in Lebanon - Beyrouth - Beirut.

http://www.world-a-team.com

Page generated in 0.14802408 seconds (78.32% PHP - 21.68% MySQL) with 10 queries
DEBUG Mode ON | GZIP ON (level 1) | 0.46 : 0.39 : 0.40
search for keyword: flintof Search took 1.68 seconds.

http://vps103.vistapages.com/~worlmcom/

Page generated in 5.54297590 seconds (9.48% PHP - 90.52% MySQL) with 10 queries
DEBUG Mode OFF | GZIP ON (level 1) | 6.80 : 7.70 : 9.51
search for keyword: flintof Search took 15.16 seconds.

__________________
Administrator

http://vps103.vistapages.com/~worlmcom/
Showing results 1 to 25 of 500 = Advanced search for Flintoff
Search took 25.18 seconds.

DEBUG Mode OFF | GZIP ON (level 1) | 4.59 : 4.64 : 5.75

Page generated in 1.00831604 seconds (29.46% PHP - 70.54% MySQL) with 11 queries

************************************************** **********************

http://www.world-a-team.com

Showing results 1 to 25 of 500
Search took 1.74 seconds.

DEBUG Mode ON | GZIP ON (level 1) | 0.27 : 0.44 : 0.38

Page generated in 0.81292701 seconds (59.31% PHP - 40.69% MySQL) with 11 queries

__________________
Ern

Results from Prague:

world-a-team.com
Page generated in 0.15955496 seconds (79.16% PHP - 20.84% MySQL) with 10 queries
DEBUG Mode ON | GZIP ON (level 1) | 0.79 : 0.52 : 0.41 |
Search for “flintoff”: Search took 0.88 seconds. Page generated in 0.31018806 seconds



The competition Page generated in 0.62370610 seconds (14.10% PHP - 85.90% MySQL) with 10 queries
DEBUG Mode OFF | GZIP ON (level 1) | 5.76 : 7.72 : 7.49
Search for "flintoff": Search took 15.60 seconds. Page generated in 2.33456206 seconds

Hope this helps somehow.

__________________
Money won't buy you friends. But it gets you a better class of enemy.
Spike Milligan

Hi OF, the search time is in the top-right corner of the results page. Looks like this:
Showing results 1 to 25 of 500
Search took 0.84 seconds.

__________________
Administrator

Found it and updated info.

__________________
Money won't buy you friends. But it gets you a better class of enemy.
Spike Milligan

Yes, the new site seems to be slower for most people. Still would like stats from a few more people - particularly from Australia, New Zealand and Pakistan, India and West Indies and South Africa.

__________________
Administrator

From New Zealand:

Vistapages hosted: Homepage 7.82801199s
Flintoff Search 3.66145205s

World-a-team current: Homepage 0.16653490 seconds
Flintoff Search 0.36994290 seconds

Quite a significant difference there!!