Vaughan's bold statement

[Occasional Fan]

Sorry to interrupt, but news is not getting out to Prague (partly cloudy, 26 deg C) all that well at the moment. Does anyone know if there is any likelihood of play at the Old Trafford Pool today?

[Pabs]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Hmm, as ever, hmmm!

While I agree with a great deal of this, I do feel it necessary to mention a couple of points regarding the feeling of comfort that Hoggard and the England side have with each other, with reference to the inclusion last summer of the unfortunate Ed Smith.

Somebody remarked from one or other media format, that nobody in the England dressing room would have heard anybody talking with an accent like Ed Smith's.
Hoggard in an interview last summer went on to say something along the lines of: "he (Smith) went to Oxford University, I went to a comprehensive" and then sarcastically added: "we had loads to talk about."

I can just imagine how "comfortable" Ed Smith felt in the England dressing room... I wonder why he didn't get another go?

Funny, I thought Hoggard himself was regarded as something of a boffin by his teammates? Maybe it was a double-bluff?

Incidentally, Ed Smith went to Cambridge Uni - same generation as Anurag Singh and Will House. And his accent isn't actually that posh - some kind of weird transatlantic thing going on.

As for Vaughan, he's hardly the archetypal salt-of-the-earth Yorkshireman!

[eng fan]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Come on Goatman, a little more perspicacity perhaps. Reading between the lines, one supposes that Ed Smith got it in the neck rather severely, I hope for his sake that he isn't religious as well... then he'd've had a hell of a time.
He played like a large green vegetable, because he wasn't comfortable in the dressing room set up.

Andrew Strauss is from almost exactly the same background and got exactly the same ribbing - hasn't stopped him playing well.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Goatman

If sarcasm about priveledge, or lack of it, in a players background is the worst thing new players have to deal with, then I would suggest that that is about as friendly and welcoming a group you are likely to get, without deliberately selecting smiling chaps with beards, coloured pullovers and guitars, who would probably immediate drive half of the new intake away screaming when they asked them "If they had talked with ***** recently".

Seems probable, Goatman: English "Team" sports (of all sort) seem to have been beset by intolerant ***holes for absolute generations.. by guys quite determined that any newcomer who is in any way introspective, reserved or something of a loner - let alone that most awful of characters - the intellectual.. is "brought out of himself" (i.e. turned into a clone of their wonderful selves). I've always put it down as a particular British trait.. perhaps owing something to infantile rituals amongst public school bully-boys and honed in the British military... but I guess it could have a wider provenance.

I'd certanly not have fancied Chris Read's chance of fitting into the English dressingroom in the mid 80s...

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Come on Goatman, a little more perspicacity perhaps. Reading between the lines, one supposes that Ed Smith got it in the neck rather severely, I hope for his sake that he isn't religious as well... then he'd've had a hell of a time.
He played like a large green vegetable, because he wasn't comfortable in the dressing room set up.

I stand by my assertion that if the worst accusation that can be pointed at a group is that they excluded an individual on the basis of "class partisanship", then that is about as good as things are likely to get. No group is without its own biases and bigotries and no group can be equally welcoming to all. As I alluded to before, even a group breaking its back with effort to be welcoming will often drive away many of the people they are trying so hard to make feel comfortable.

When ENG A went to IND, ET Smith was the first name I looked for on the score sheets. He has some ability and I would be no kind of supporter of ENG cricket if I was to feel anything but hope that he would deliver on it. But it cannot be pretended that he has delivered. And if this is because he was so weak as to have been excluded from a clique by chips on a few shoulders then he is highly unlikely to make a success in the atmosphere of test cricket! It is an unfortunate fact that life is no kind of featherbed, and often success is not dependant on ability but on self-belief. It seems that it is an equally unfortunate fact that ET Smith falls down in exactly that department.

[Ernest]

Well I live near Old Trafford,seem brighter can never be sure though,I think the ground has had a good soaking.

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by Occasional Fan

Sorry to interrupt, but news is not getting out to Prague (partly cloudy, 26 deg C) all that well at the moment. Does anyone know if there is any likelihood of play at the Old Trafford Pool today?

Well, its cleared up here! Sunsihine though the clouds now!

Not sure how that effects the situation at Manchester Public Baths though......

[eng fan]

Originally Posted by Goatman

I stand by my assertion that if the worst accusation that can be pointed at a group is that they excluded an individual on the basis of "class partisanship", then that is about as good as things are likely to get. No group is without its own biases and bigotries and no group can be equally welcoming to all. As I alluded to before, even a group breaking its back with effort to be welcoming will often drive away many of the people they are trying so hard to make feel comfortable.

Yeah, I think this board is the perfect example of this, it's a bit of a clique and no-one responds to your messages unless you've posted 1000 times...

[Ernest]

Adam Hollioak had his chances just the same as anyone else,when he was picked for England,he broke no eggs did he?comparing him to the chances Flintoff has had,well even at his worst Flintoff did something either with the bat,but more often with the ball,at that time.Flintoff went on to make the grade.

A case can be made for lots of players who feel hard done to under this systen,What did Crawley ever do wrong?same with Troughton,what did he get,One match?Ed Smith went out of the team like Key,where is he now.

As for Botham being captain,well it was his fault he lost it in many ways,he was far to chummy with the Windies players on tour,he was not hard enough,thing is though he had to resign after a draw with Australia at Lords.

Everyone has a pop at Stewart,well he was not the worst captain,and he did not have the players,he compaires with Atherton in some ways,I know this set up now that keppers have to bat,kept W Hegg out,and he could probably bat as well as IO Jones.

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by eng fan

Yeah, I think this board is the perfect example of this, it's a bit of a clique and no-one responds to your messages unless you've posted 1000 times...

Actually, there isn't an awful lot of replying to anyones posts at the moment. Things feel terribly quiet..................

Anyway, a belated welcome to you and appologies if you have been met with less and open arms. My recommendation is to say something completely unacceptable to the majority, and watch the replies roooollllllll in...................

Any feelings about the current ENG crop? Personally I think James Anderson is crap and Fred bats like his hands are made entirely out of cheese.