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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 22-03-2008, 11:33 AM in reply to Scott-Wozniak's post starting "What the hell are you talking about..."
Rachael Rachael is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperHarley View Post
Bell - At the end of the previous over he was playing air pull-shots down the non-strikers end. Pre-meditating a stroke that he hadnt yet played in his innings! It was a truly horrible shot to get out to. The ball was six to eight inches outside off stump and could have been cut, driven square on the offside, or left well alone.
I don't dispute that it was an appalling dismissal.... but the problem (as you illustrate) is feeling under pressure to (in Vaughan's words) "express himself": the first (and over-riding) priority of any batsman should be to avoid giving away his wicket, {a} because you can't add to your score from the pavillion; and {b} because you are trying to build a partnership... and even if you don't contribute runs personaly, you can play a vital part by playing for the guy the other end - this team's concern with batsmen "expressing" themselves needs ditching!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperHarley View Post
Vaughan got a good ball
The ball was decent... but Vaughan had his foot planted too early: he didn't give himself the chance to play the ball late and thus deal with the lateral movement. No big deal as it was VERY early in his innings... but not great either.
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Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak View Post
Cooks dismissal was batsman error - he was playing a DEFENSIVE shot Rachael a DEFENSIVE shot, and he got bowled through the gate, with a slight deflection off his pads because he didn't DEFEND it properly - because he has a flaw in his technique!
Ah... you were obviously watching a different game from Andrew McGlashan:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cricinfo commentary
6.3 Martin to Cook, OUT, gone! this is amazing stuff, Cook gets an inside edge into his stumps as he tries to drive and the third one is gone inside seven overs. Martin mixing up his line from round and over the wicket, Cook responded with an airy drive
I don't consider an "airy drive" to be a "defensive" shot... and the TMS team were just as adamant as the cricinfo commentary that Cook was playing a loose drive!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 22-03-2008, 02:19 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "I don't dispute that it was an..."
Aurelius Aurelius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
I don't dispute that it was an appalling dismissal.... but the problem (as you illustrate) is feeling under pressure to (in Vaughan's words) "express himself": the first (and over-riding) priority of any batsman should be to avoid giving away his wicket, {a} because you can't add to your score from the pavillion; and {b} because you are trying to build a partnership... and even if you don't contribute runs personaly, you can play a vital part by playing for the guy the other end...
There's a difference between playing for the guy at the other end, and putting all the pressure on him by playing ultra-defensively. You play for the other batsman by giving him the strike- you do this by rotating the strike and scoring singles. And isn't the best defense a good offense? Pieterson was the most successful batsman today precisely because he took the attack back to the bowlers, and put the pressure on the fielders. Broad batted with Pieterson, but Pieterson batted despite Bell.

And about it not being nesessary to secure a result because the series is already tied... really, how many times has playing for the draw actually paid off?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 22-03-2008, 02:20 PM in reply to Speedboy Salesman's post starting "Dare I say it's time to re-evaluate..."
Aurelius Aurelius is offline
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Originally Posted by Speedboy Salesman View Post
Dare I say it's time to re-evaluate Vaughan's selection in the squad? Collingwood has proven that he can captain an England side, and Vaughan's batting is beyond terrible, and his space could be filled with a more worthy batsman.
Absolutely. I don't think there's room for Vaughan, Bell and Strauss in the same team, and not even Vaughan is untouchable.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 22-03-2008, 02:43 PM in reply to Aurelius's post starting "There's a difference between playing..."
Rachael Rachael is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
There's a difference between playing for the guy at the other end, and putting all the pressure on him by playing ultra-defensively.
Two things.

1. What puts most pressure on a batsman is the clatter of wickets the other end: being confident that both of you are focussed on building a partnership over 2-3-4 sessions is essential.

2. Whilst rotating the strike at will is a great aspiration... if it ain't happening, the answer is NOT to try and hit your way out of the situation!

It's the "gotta do something" bit I can't stand: patience is a virtue!
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 22-03-2008, 08:16 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Two things. 1. What puts most..."
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Been a weird series..

England not coping with the slowness of some pitches i guess, although its only really been Hamilton that lacked pace, seems these guys have a 1 track mind of every surface they play on on this tour, only way i can see sense in their ridiculously slow play. Bar KP, god knows whats happening (Bell/Colly etc).

Theres good bowling (which the Kiwis have produced) and theres poor batting (which the English have contributed).

Well once England are wrapped up (which i think wont take long, despite Broad in the 40s), will be interesting to see how NZ's ailing, aging top order goes about their game. They are at home, used to the conditions, and well, the pitch is a belter really. Offers your usual swing with the red ball and maybe some turn, but cm;on lads, this is test cricket!

So if Bell, Sinclair, How and co all get in the runs, hopefully NZ can gain a lead of around 200 runs after both teams complete 1 innings of play, then the English are there for the taking
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 22-03-2008, 08:29 PM in reply to Navdeep's post starting "Been a weird series.. England not..."
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Navdeep, I wouldn't write us off just yet.
Sidebottom's contributions with the ball this series have been excellent, and NZ's batting hasn't been all that outstanding.
Agreed, we had an appalling day yesterday, and if it wasn't for KP's patient knock, we'd be in even more deeply, but there are still 4 days to go.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 22-03-2008, 09:31 PM in reply to Moss's post starting "Navdeep, I wouldn't write us off just..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moss View Post
Navdeep, I wouldn't write us off just yet.
Sidebottom's contributions with the ball this series have been excellent, and NZ's batting hasn't been all that outstanding.
Agreed, we had an appalling day yesterday, and if it wasn't for KP's patient knock, we'd be in even more deeply, but there are still 4 days to go.
Yep, like i said, all depends on how NZ's frail batting line up combats Sidebottom and co. Hope Flem ends with a big ton, deserves it, a saint for NZ over the years.

EDIT - As i write, Southee (the new Bond as i call him ) gets a wicket with the 1st ball of the day Looks like my 1st preidctions right, England should be wrapped up quickly, big chance for a debut 5-er for Tim too.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 22-03-2008, 09:44 PM in reply to Navdeep's post starting "Yep, like i said, all depends on how..."
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I hope Southee gets 5. Just not too soon.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 22-03-2008, 09:57 PM in reply to Moss's post starting "I hope Southee gets 5. Just not too..."
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Well done to the newcomer Southee. How are the openers going to cope. Not very well according to past form.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 22-03-2008, 10:10 PM in reply to John's post starting "Well done to the newcomer Southee. How..."
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Sidebottom has already removed the walking wicket Bell,just another 9 to get today.

Well done young Southee,looks a fine prospect.
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