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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008, 01:38 AM
b3au b3au is offline
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The most overrated 11

Who do you think would make the most overrated team???
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Old 06-04-2008, 02:57 AM in reply to b3au's post "The most overrated 11"
Rachael Rachael is offline
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I'm not necessarily suggesting any of the following are anything less than worthy Test players... but all have been overhyped...

Core of side: Hayden, Sehwag, Jacques, Symonds, Gilchrist, Dhoni, Lee, Panesar
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:00 AM in reply to b3au's post "The most overrated 11"
Aurelius Aurelius is offline
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I'd suggest Graeme Smith and Phil Jaques as the openers. And it might be a bit controversial, but Abdul Qadir as the spinner- when a bowler averages 47 away from home, you've gotta think that he falls some way short of greatness.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:54 PM in reply to Aurelius's post starting "I'd suggest Graeme Smith and Phil..."
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engssmoothcriminal engssmoothcriminal is offline
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Well there is but one choice for the keeping slot and that is Chris Read (although Mustard for no earthly reason is closing the gap rapidly). Before certain people start going off on one Read is unquestionably the best keeper currently in English cricket and one of the best in the world game however the messianic status that his glovework has been granted by a fair number England supporters and individuals in the media somewhat overstates the guys abilities. He’s good but he’s not remotely in the Knott, Healy, Taylor e.t.c top end bracket and his keeping in an England shirt was not as flawless (or littered with moments of sheer brilliance) as some would have us believe.


And of course any young Indian quick bowler who has a (vaguely) decent debut series.
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:51 PM in reply to engssmoothcriminal's post starting "Well there is but one choice for the..."
Rachael Rachael is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engssmoothcriminal View Post
Read is unquestionably the best keeper currently in English cricket
Excepting Simon Guy, and possibly Mustard. Not sure how Foster compares these days either: neither would warrant comparison with Piper... but few in the history of the game would!
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Originally Posted by engssmoothcriminal View Post
and one of the best in the world game
Young Jayawardene appears the most promising on that front...
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Originally Posted by engssmoothcriminal View Post
however the messianic status that his glovework has been granted by a fair number England supporters and individuals in the media somewhat overstates the guys abilities. He’s good but he’s not remotely in the Knott, Healy, Taylor e.t.c top end bracket
Agreed. Read is to glovework what (say) Tresco was to batting (i.e. talented, but no Lara)... but let's put this in perspective: most international rivals are to glovework what such "all-rounders" as Dermott Reeve and Adam Hollioake have been to batting!
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:32 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Excepting Simon Guy, and possibly..."
sittingduck sittingduck is offline
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It's possible I'll lose my New Zealand citizenship for suggesting Chris Cairns as allrounder. He was always trumped up as New Zealand's great match winner but missed more games than he played thanks to injury.
When he did make the field I don't think his stats match his "genuine allrounder" status. Perhaps in regards to the New Zealand team but not in terms of world cricket.
For the record his stats are 3320 runs at 33.53 and 218 wickets at 29.4 from 62 matches.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:47 PM in reply to sittingduck's post starting "It's possible I'll lose my New Zealand..."
Rachael Rachael is offline
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Originally Posted by sittingduck View Post
For the record his stats are 3320 runs at 33.53 and 218 wickets at 29.4 from 62 matches.
Well, Flintoff has played 67 (5 more) matches and has 3381 runs at 32.50 (advantage Cairns) and 197 wickets at 32.02 (advantage Cairns).
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:00 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Well, Flintoff has played 67 (5 more)..."
Aurelius Aurelius is offline
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Cairns compares favourably to Kapil Dev as well- batting average 31.05, bowling average of 29.65.
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:47 AM in reply to Aurelius's post starting "Cairns compares favourably to Kapil Dev..."
sittingduck sittingduck is offline
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Interesting comparisons so I stand to be corrected, I always felt though in tests Cairns wasn't living up to the hype.
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Old 07-04-2008, 12:55 PM in reply to sittingduck's post starting "Interesting comparisons so I stand to..."
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Quagmire Quagmire is offline
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Rach like usual, to say that these cricketers are over rated is a little unfair. Looking at the three test opening batsman that you have picked, it is even unfair to say that two of them are not genuine superstars of the modern game. Jaques has played only a handful of International cricket.

Stats do not lie (unless they played 3 matches against England and 58 against Bangladesh)

Hayden
Test - 167 inn, 13 No, 8242 runs at 53.52, Sr 60.13, Hs 380, 30x100, 27x50, 2x200, 1x300, 11 ducks, 121 cat
ODI - 155 inn, 15 No, 6133 runs at 43.81, Sr 78.96, Hs 181*, 10x100, 36x50, 2x150, 9 ducks, 68 cat

If I ware an opening batsman and I actually am, if I were to be a professional opening batsman I wouldn’t mind having a test and ODI records. What standard Hayden has set for the rest of the opening batsman out there in the world? He has done it as a destructive opening batsman in both forms of the game. Just remembering the game is a lot different for an opening batsman than a guy like Michael Clarke coming in at four or five, and only cricketers truly understand that.


Sehwag
Test - 94 inn, 3 No, 4783 runs at 52.56, Sr 76.30, Hs 319, 14x100, 13x50, 4x200, 2x300, 9 ducks, 45 cat
ODI - 178 inn, 7 No, 5312 runs at 31.06, Sr 96.53, Hs 130, 8x100, 25x50, 11 ducks, 72 cat

Sehwag has a fantastic record, his strike rate in both forms of the game if far more superior than other opening batsman. I have never been a fan of him but he is just as important to have in form as Tendulaker for India. With the ability to win matches off his own bat is something special to have in your side.

Jaques
Test - 13 inn, 0 No, 657 runs at 50.54, Sr 55.07, Hs 150, 2x100, 5x50, 1 duck, 3 cat.
ODI - 6 inn, 0 No, 125 runs at 20.83, Sr 71.02, Hs 94, 1x50, 1 duck, 3 cat

The guy has been stuck behind Langer and Hayden is whole career, just waiting for them to retire to get a shot at opening the batting at the Sydney cricket ground or the crowd at the Boxing Day test at a pull packed sold out MCG. He has hit the ground running due to the standard of Australian domestic cricket. Batting average over 50 in test cricket is a good start to a career, plus just looks at his first class apprenticeship.

First Class - 122 mat, 11,300 runs at 54.90, Hs 244, 34x100, 53x50, 9 No
List A - 122 mat, 4738 runs at 42.68, Hs 158*, 12x100, 26x50, 8 No

Is it t too early into the career to judge an opening batsman as a great TEST cricketer or a hopeless failed batsman? He does not look like he is a Damien Martyn or Mark Waugh because he is not as naturally talented and fluent, but what he does have is smarts, he is powerful and tough. He has a Langer toughness and Hayden mean streak, he will be a solid Australian cricketer until he retires because he is hitting his prime now at 28 years old and he has a lot of experience for a guy just coming into the test side.
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