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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2008, 09:59 AM in reply to greg's post starting "Exactly John. Which is why i would..."
John John is offline
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Agreed. I would play Hoggard he hasn't got that many years left in Test cricket so use him while he is there.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2008, 10:53 AM in reply to John's post starting "Agreed. I would play Hoggard he hasn't..."
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First wicket this morning well bowled Sidebottom.
NZ doing okay batting slowly this morning, time my become a factor in this match. Ist goal must be 250.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2008, 12:06 PM in reply to John's post starting "First wicket this morning well bowled..."
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With the forecast for tomorrow being dreadful i doubt there will be a result unless one side win by an innings.

260-8 at lunch with Sidebottom picking up a wicket with the new ball just before lunch.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2008, 12:17 PM in reply to John's post starting "First wicket this morning well bowled..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
First wicket this morning well bowled Sidebottom.
Are the bowlers finding a better length today? Anderson has apparently acknowledged that the seamers generally bowled way too short (like a couple of yards too short) yesterday.

From what I can work out (having missed pretty much all the play to date), Broad found a better length than Sidebottom and Anderson until McCullum got after him and then played into McCullum's hands by bowling lots of shorter balls

At least Vaughan had the confidence to let Broad bowl at McCullum: sounds like he didn't have the same confidence in Anderson's ability to bowl to the plan once McCullum got going.

Oh... and the one England player who has always been good at pitching the ball up when all around are dropping short? Released from the 12 selected from the Test
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2008, 01:37 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Are the bowlers finding a better length..."
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Collyisamackem Collyisamackem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
Are the bowlers finding a better length today? Anderson has apparently acknowledged that the seamers generally bowled way too short (like a couple of yards too short) yesterday.
Not quite, Anderson said 'a bit too short' but most sides do - it's a fine line between 'too short' and 'too full', and the short ball tied down Vettori and got Oram out today. From the highlights Broad bowled back of a length and therefore wasn't in with a shout of lbw against anyone, but beat McCullum several times early on.

Sidebottom has bowled Mills and Southee with the new ball in a smattering of balls between breaks for bad light, Vettori has Martin with him and has naturally decided to throw all caution to the wind and throw his bat. Martin has also managed to negotiate an over from Sidebottom and 5 balls from Anderson (just get one straight and full both of you, it doesn't even have to be quick!), and we're just waiting for the light to clear and that straight ball to Martin. 274/9.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2008, 01:58 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Are the bowlers finding a better length..."
Scott-Wozniak Scott-Wozniak is offline
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Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
From what I can work out (having missed pretty much all the play to date), Broad found a better length than Sidebottom and Anderson until McCullum got after him and then played into McCullum's hands by bowling lots of shorter balls
McCullum got after everyone yesterday not just Broad, and yes they did all bowl a little too short, and that doesn't really help when McCullum bats about 2 feet out of his crease or comes down to the track to you as he was doing.

I thought McCullums innings was pretty 'agricultural' and he really did have the luck with him. Several balls dropped yards from fielders and he struggled with Panesar throughout, having two very good LBW decisions turned down, before he finally succumbed to a flighted ball that went on with the arm, off the pad and onto the stumps. On another day he'd have been out for naught.

Sidebottom really cleaned up the tail this morning, with some simple good accurate swing bowling. Both Southey and Mills bowled on deliveries simply too good for them, slanting across and then straightening at the last minute to take out off stump, and the same for Vettori but the other way round, the ball that goes straight on and doesnt swing, taking out middle and off.

Those dismissals and swing movement in these conditions are what's causing these Kiwi's the problems. Mills and Southey in New Zealand where the ball didn't swing much simply hit through the line, try and do that here with the swinging ball on the stumps and you're out.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2008, 05:47 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Are the bowlers finding a better length..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
Are the bowlers finding a better length today? Anderson has apparently acknowledged that the seamers generally bowled way too short (like a couple of yards too short) yesterday. [...]Oh... and the one England player who has always been good at pitching the ball up when all around are dropping short? Released from the 12 selected from the Test
Rachael Anderson was the pick of the bowlers yesterday, along with Broad - Sidebottom did not bowl well yesterday, but did today.

Hoggard would not have made any difference at all - maybe he should have played rather than Panesar, 4 seam bowlers really are needed on a pitch like this, to stop bowlers have to bowl to many overs.

New Zealand: 277
England: 68-0
Delayed (Bad light stopped play)

England just have the edge - with both Vaughan and Strauss making the most of some poor NZ bowling, well bowling that has a sameness about it.

England at least have some variety to their attack, and weather permitting will probably win this match.

NZ are missing Bond, more than England are missing Harmison and Flintoff at the moment, but 2009 will be a different story as far as England are concerned.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2008, 06:17 PM in reply to Ernest's post starting "Rachael Anderson was the pick of the..."
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Anderson's first spell (though only his first spell) has been well received in most quarters... and the quote in the Telegraph was Anderson admitting to the attack bowling "two yards too short", and he's done nothing to reassure those who worry about his rhythm going AWOL more often than being in evidence.

Broad has been given more credit for his overall performance, though Pringle seems to be on the mark in his comment that Broad was "perhaps guilty of that bit too hard to get rid of" McCullum.

Many have noted that Sidebottom had a day to forget (though Angus Fraser is one of many to express surprise that he operated from the Nursery End given that most left-arm seamers bowl from the Pavilion End to exploit the slope).

What was missing yesterday was surely Hoggard's experience: like most seamers, he also tended to drop back of a length when batsmen went after him early in his career... but under Troy Cooley's guidance he matured into a far more dependable bowler and learnt to stick to a good length, especially in the sort of auspicious conditions that prevailed yesterday.

At least Sidebottom came back today and whilst still bowling too many balls too short, showed everyone why he's still the top rated England bowler at present (though cricinfo suggest Anderson bowled possibly his best spell of the match in conceding nine runs from six tight overs in his opening spell).

Last edited by Rachael : 16-05-2008 at 06:41 PM.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2008, 07:36 PM in reply to Ernest's post starting "Rachael Anderson was the pick of the..."
Scott-Wozniak Scott-Wozniak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
Rachael Anderson was the pick of the bowlers yesterday, along with Broad - Sidebottom did not bowl well yesterday, but did today.
I thought Sudebottom bowled okay yesterday, he just didn't get the rewards like the others did. If you look at the figures, Sidebottom was the most economic of all the bowlers yesterday, he just didn't take many wickets. That happens, he'll bowl a lot worse and take wickets.

Anderson continues to be inconsistent and ultimately it will be his downfall. When he gets it right in the right conditions he can provide as difficult a challenge to batsman as any fast bowler in the world, sadly he rarely gets it right on a consistent basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
Hoggard would not have made any difference at all - maybe he should have played rather than Panesar, 4 seam bowlers really are needed on a pitch like this, to stop bowlers have to bowl to many overs.
The side continues to be unbalanced in the bowling department, because they keep playing that extra batsman, replacing the only spinner with another seamer does not make up for that. They'll get away with that formation against weaker sides, but not against stronger ones.

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England at least have some variety to their attack, and weather permitting will probably win this match.
Unless this weather improves, this game will peter out into a draw - something NZ will be very pleased about.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 17-05-2008, 12:25 AM in reply to John's post starting "Agreed. I would play Hoggard he hasn't..."
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Quote:
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Agreed. I would play Hoggard he hasn't got that many years left in Test cricket so use him while he is there.
I think with the spread of wickets among the 3 seamers in the first innings, looking backwards towards Hoggard would be a very negative move by the England selectors.

It would only impede the development of the current crop of England bowlers, and from what I have seen in recent seasons Hoggard even on song is hardly going to bring a batting attack to its knees.

Harmison is a different story, he has a much bigger upside than Hoggard if and when he can regain top form.

But his form is so poor, he really needs a prolonged spell at your domestic level including a total rebuild of his bowling action, confidence and fitness, plus some big performances before he comes anywhere near test calculations again.

I think Harmison has gone backwards since he announced his withdrawal from limited overs cricket, for a premier fast bowler I think that is a cop out considering the real good ones like Glenn McGrath are even playing T20 cricket in the IPL beyond retirement.

Part of being a fast bowler is restricting runs, something that has in recent years has totally deserted Harmisons game. While on the other hand if he looks at another pace bowling example Brett Lee, his bowling economy has improved dramatically in recent years, along with his rise in the Wisden rankings.

Do your self a favor Harmy, get back into the T20's and 50 overs.
And you might be pleasantly surprised your test bowling gets back into top shape.
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