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Old 04-08-2008, 10:40 PM
Rachael Rachael is offline
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Has Pietersen just been "bought"?

Looking at the rather bizarre choice of Pietersen as England captain (following two tests where his own brainless shot selection arguably gifted SA victories that were slipping from their grasp)... I'm left wondering if the guy has been given the top job in order to ensure he doesn't lead a rebellion in the direction of the BCCI's Twenty20 cash-cow.

If the vast sums of money were not on offer, and if Pieterson hadn't been so vocal in calling for a window in the international calendar to allow himto cash in... I suspect Strauss (or Key) would have got the job... with Pietersen perhaps dropped for the Oval Test as a brutal message about what the management thought of his ludicrous dismissals at Edgbaston (when in a position to bat SA out of the game) and Headingley (when he played in Twenty20 style in a game that required nothing more than application, application and more application).

Last edited by Rachael : 04-08-2008 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 04-08-2008, 10:46 PM in reply to Rachael's post "Has Pietersen just been..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
I'm left wondering if the guy has been given the top job in order to ensure he doesn't lead a rebellion in the direction of the BCCI's Twenty20 cash-cow.
Excellent point Rachael. Pietersen has been more interested than most in the super PJ cash waggon. Could well be he has been "bought".

By the same token, has Collingwood resigned as the England one day captaincy to give him the freedom to wander in the direction of the cash lure of the BCCI super PJ cash rich game.
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:30 PM in reply to Ernest's post starting "Excellent point Rachael. Pietersen has..."
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I might be a cynic, but the thought that Pietersen has been bought has certainly entered my mind. Giving him the captaincy role ensures that he will be batting essentially only for England for the immediate future. Collingwood was essentially prodded from his post to make sure that Pietersen doesn't turn his back on any of England's ODI or Twenty20 commitments and also to use the 'one captain is best' excuse.

I love Pietersen as a batsman, but he is rash and therefore random. I've done no statistical analysis but I expect he is just as likely to fail in all situation - the majority of his test innings have been quite aggressive and therefore his vulnerable. I hope, for the test team's sake, that this mindset can be curbed when comtemplating captaincy duties.

I'm not sure he deserves to be dropped after his shot. It is indeed true that he shouldn't need to do such things when well set. However, those 94 runs would have been accepted had England's batsmen not performed terribly in the first innings.
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Old 05-08-2008, 12:04 AM in reply to Rachael's post "Has Pietersen just been..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
Looking at the rather bizarre choice of Pietersen as England captain (following two tests where his own brainless shot selection arguably gifted SA victories that were slipping from their grasp)...
Huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vaughan scores 40 runs in 3 tests and you are blaming Pietersen for gifting South Africa victories ??

Maybe if the affable but fallible Strauss had have scored as heavily as Pietersen these gifted victories would not have taken place.

This thread has the stench of a bitter and nasty personnel hatred of Kevin Pietersen about it.

So bitter that if I had not seen the name of the poster, I would have suspected it was possibly written by a former Nottinghamshire captain who may have tossed "KP's" cricket kit out of an upper clubhouse window about 4 years ago.

Or alternatively a blindly one eyed Nottinghamshire supporter still carrying a grudge..
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:34 AM in reply to acker's post starting "Huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vaughan scores 40..."
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Maranello Maranello is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemming View Post
I love Pietersen as a batsman, but he is rash and therefore random. I've done no statistical analysis but I expect he is just as likely to fail in all situation - the majority of his test innings have been quite aggressive and therefore his vulnerable.
But then so were most of the innings by the likes of Richards, Gilchrist, Lloyd, Zaheer Abbas, Hayden etc - didn't do their averages any harm.
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[...] Pietersen perhaps dropped for the Oval Test as a brutal message about what the management thought of his ludicrous dismissals
LOL! Rachael, even if Lalit Modi, IPL and T20 cricket had never existed, the chances of that happening would have been remoter than your being called up for the first Ashes test next year! The English selectors have made some bizarre and inexplicable calls this summer, but even they are not silly enough to drop their one world-class player on a whim. Selectors are supposed to select the best XI for each game, not axe good players in petulant fits.
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:43 AM in reply to Rachael's post "Has Pietersen just been..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
Looking at the rather bizarre choice of Pietersen as England captain (following two tests where his own brainless shot selection arguably gifted SA victories that were slipping from their grasp)...

with Pietersen perhaps dropped for the Oval Test as a brutal message about what the management thought of his ludicrous dismissals at Edgbaston (when in a position to bat SA out of the game) and Headingley (when he played in Twenty20 style in a game that required nothing more than application, application and more application)
Yet nothing is said when Collingwood reached his 100 with a six? How much more dumb would that be if he got himself out trying that shot when he was scratching his way back to form and was effectively facing the end of his test career if he didn't perform? I am sure people would be applauding Pietersen's efforts had his shot come off and got out clean bowled on 100 instead of holing out when on 94.

I think some batsmen play the way the play almost regardless of the situation otherwise why will Sehwag try to hit a six to get to his triple hundred? They just back thier abilities and I dont believe for a moment that Pietersen ever thought he would hole out when he tried that shot. I dont think these batsmen are the type of guys anybody can dictate to them to play in a certain fashion, if that had happened Sehwag wouldn't have scored 201 out of a team total of 329.

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Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
I'm left wondering if the guy has been given the top job in order to ensure he doesn't lead a rebellion in the direction of the BCCI's Twenty20 cash-cow....
I think players play for thier own professional and financial reasons and I dont think anyone point a finger at some one who wants to earn money. How many people leave companies when offered a higher pay and other perks at some other place? But ultimately after a lot of debate in India and getting views from players etc, people have reached a conclusion that playing for the country is the ultimate goal and aspiration for most players and if money comes in thier way they will take it.

I think Pietersen has stopped talking about the IPL now that he has the Stanford money on offer, why go against the ECB when he gets more money than the IPL, playing one match that the ECB itself is organizing? Now its for the english public to decide which is worse, the IPL or the Stanford match?

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Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
If the vast sums of money were not on offer, and if Pieterson hadn't been so vocal in calling for a window in the international calendar to allow himto cash in... I suspect Strauss (or Key) would have got the job...
It is outrageous to think that the ECB would infact give Pietersen the captaincy as a 'sop' for not talking about the IPL. Do you think in such times of crisis that the ECB would do something like that? Imagine the repercussions of giving a guy captaincy as a sop, even though the ECB didn't believe he was the right person for the job? Obviously quite a bit of thought has gone into it by the selectors and whether it is right or wrong will be clearer in the days to come.

The level of cynicism in this thread is unbelievable and all you folks look frustrated because things didn't work out the way you wanted them to. It is unbelievable some of you would entertain thoughts of a rank outsider like Key who isn't even in the team currently, being given the captaincy. I mean give the guy a chance before you decide on his captaincy. I had similar doubts when Dhoni was given ODI captaincy after Dravid quit, but he's doing pretty well.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:17 AM in reply to sanketh84's post starting "Yet nothing is said when Collingwood..."
Rachael Rachael is offline
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Yet nothing is said when Collingwood reached his 100 with a six?
No commentator criticised Collingwood for his shot because he got gifted a delivery that was there to be hit (that asked for the treatment) and had waited for the right ball rather falling into a trap set for his ego. Pietersen has the game to play the ball anywhere he likes... and is certainly accomplished enough to pick gaps and to take the lower-risk options: he should have been setting himself to grind SA out of the game.... and even before his dismissal he'd been showboating in a grossly inappropriate manner.

Boycott was commentating at Headingley when Pietersen scored 13 off four balls and then got out. To say he was unimpressed by the idiocy would be gross understatement. Pietersen later asked if he were supposed to "block the half-volleys" and the answer the fool seems incapable of grasping is quite clearly "yes": when you are in the first hour at the crease, or when the match situation requires you to apply yourself even after 6 hours at the crease, you play in the way that the team needs you to play. Pretty elementary (and something Mackenzie, Prince and co clearly grasped all too well).

Pietersen's remark that "I play how I play. I love batting. I love entertaining. Some days I come off and some days I don't. But I like to think that so far I've come off" is just plain pathetic, and after the Headingley dismissal Stewart said so. He didn't mince his words either. He was commentating, live, on TMS. His first words were "I'm sorry, but that is just not acceptable" and he went on to say the shot was "pathetic" and "brainless". He also found other choice ways of expressing his ire. He was basically outraged. His line was clear: the coach needed to get hold of him and tell him, in no uncertain terms (rather in the manner that one imaging Alex Ferguson giving one of his players a dressing down, that there was absolutely no place for such glory-hunting in an England shirt.

Boycott is a fan of Pietersen. So is Stewart. I believe both would have applauded if Pietersen had been dropped for one match to reflect on what playing for a team actually requires, and to get his head around the notion that he's actually got to play as the situation demands.

Incidentally... Vaughan's one great weakness as leader was the way he actually encouraged Pietersen'smindset. Vaughan said in Australia on his first and hugely successful tour that he wasn't going to "die wondering" and has been spouting twaddle about players "expressing themselves" ever since. I've a lot of time for Vaughan... but this was, and remains, complete ********.

Last edited by Rachael : 05-08-2008 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:44 AM in reply to Rachael's post starting "No commentator criticised Collingwood..."
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A big problem currently with English cricket is that there are to many failed captains such as Atherton, etc fueling the media commentating on all the reasons why Pietersen will stuff up the captaincy, in much the same way they used to captain the England side themselves starting off on the backfoot as soon as they hit the ground because they were pre-conditioned to losing.

I find the negative mindset of some English supporters astounding, on what from someone outside emotionally detached from English cricket "me"; personally consider has been a bold positive move by English cricket not seen since Vaughan and Fletcher took over from Hussien, and that may possibly even have a bigger upside.

I'm sure the depressing low acheiving group of commentators such as Atherton, Hussien etc are the major cause of this.

They commentate like they played and captained....mediocre at best.

Last edited by acker : 06-08-2008 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:48 AM in reply to acker's post starting "A big problem currently with English..."
Notts Exile Notts Exile is offline
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How pathetiec the England "supporters" really are. Not sure how KP handed South Africa victory in either Test. It's typical of the english to pick on their best player. Put them up on a pedestal and then knock them off.
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:49 AM in reply to Rachael's post starting "No commentator criticised Collingwood..."
Notts Exile Notts Exile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
Boycott is a fan of Pietersen. So is Stewart. I believe both would have applauded if Pietersen had been dropped for one match to reflect on what playing for a team actually requires, and to get his head around the notion that he's actually got to play as the situation demands.
No they wouldn't. You pick your best side and at present he's the first batsman on the teamsheet (regardless of the captaincy).

Your dislike of certain players is ridiculous. Sehwag makes you look silly every time he scores a few runs and I'm sure KP will go on to do so too.
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