With all the attention being given to speed merchants on these pages, I think its high-time someone stood up for the spin wisards...

Lets get the ball rolling on this debate.. who do you think is the greatest spin bowler of all time?

You can go as far back as you like... we can left armers, chinamen, off break or leg break, Laker or Warne... Benaud or Murali... Qadir or Bedi... Do pick a range of three or four if you are indecisive, but whittle it down to the greatest.

To make it more interesting, I think we should include the other external factors in our assessment too... eg whether chucking, taking drugs, money from bookies, etc.. though extraneous to turning a cricket ball, they are relevant in who deserves to be The Greatest of all time..

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A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes
Mark Twain

Can their be any greater a spin bowler than the king of SPAIN him self?

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If you aren't making mistakes you aren't really trying

Hmmm... can we have a best finger spinner and best leg spinner? Seems to me they are such different arts that it's a bit much lumping them together..

The leg spin contest is presumably headed by Qadir and Warne... with any other contestents coming from a much earlier era: much as I admire Kumble I don't think he can aspire to more than a respectable third behind that pair. Thing is though... I believe all three have had the greatest impact when they've had runs to play with and been able to attack.. and have posed their greatest threat only on those tracks with some real bounce and pace in them.

The finger spin list might be a tad longer than the leg-spin list... with some reputably English folk like Laker facing up to some serious sub-continental competition. I suspect we can get 10 or more heavyweight contenders even fromt he post-war era.

Slow left arm to me would be between Bedi and Underwood.
Off Spin would be between Murali and Laker.
Wrist spinner would have to be Warne.
Loads more to choose from, I will vote tomorrow.

Ern

I bowl legspin and it's an absolutely difficult art to learn. The reason I say this is because the bowler seldom has any real control of the ball at the moment of release in term of line and length. With the offspinner now the bowler delivers the bal from infront of his eyes with a positive grip with which he can pitch offstump all day long. Leg spinners who bowl back of the arm are further hindered by the fact that so many fingers touch the ball and have an impact on it at the time of dilivery. in non dominat areas of the hand .

The reason wont choose MURI is simple because his deliveries are controlled by the flat palm of his right hand which gives him greater control. Warne now has to deal with the inner part of the fingers which when sweaty can throw a delivery off line..the natural bend of the arm that a leg spinner gets is also a disadvantage in term of trajectory which is why so many young schoolboy legspinner bowl so may long hops.

The reason why the young inexperienced leg spinner bowls so many full tosses/ full pitched deliveries is because they have not yet masterd thw art of timing ball release.

Let me explain what i mean by ball release timing - The ater the ball is released by a leggie the more downward trajectory the ball gets and this results in long hops; however the earlier the said ball is released the fuller that ball will be and the end result is nearly always the full toss.

So I said all of that to say this: Shane warne is the greatest spinner of all time.

Oh God, I always struggle to make sense of all the spinology leg and off break fans dish out - no dispresct but it doesn't stick well in my mind , I have always been hopeless at science. That's why I like Giles , he doesn't spin the ball so every thing is nice and easy to under stand, even for the batsmen (although that changed some what off late) but he's good king nevertheless (;-

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If you aren't making mistakes you aren't really trying

I went for Hedley Verity (maybe because he wasn't listed). His performances against Bradman are second to none and on the right pitch he was absolutely unplayable. Of those that I have seen bowl, Warne is the best - followed closely by Deadly Derek.

I'd go for Warne too...from the ones I have seen myself, he is the greatest, whatever his off-field shenanigans.

Muralitharan would be second. For the others, have not seen any live, but from what I have read, heard or seen grainy TV recordings of, Derek Underwood would be a joint-second, followed by Bedi.

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A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes
Mark Twain

True Rachael, they are very different in how they are done... but the end-game for both is fairly similar..

One could split wrist-spinner and orthodox finger spinner..but then should have a separate category for slow left-armers, eg Underwood and Bedi. In the end, I thought, it will all get too complicated for honest village lads like me...so let's keep it simple!

I guess its not unlike comparing Marshall with Hadlee - both very different in strategy, strenghts and how they do things, but somewhat similar aims! (ie get the chap out by outswing / inswing / bouncer..an over-simplicification, I know..)

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A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes
Mark Twain

Muralitharan & Warne can't really seperate them, great bowlers .. I personally think that Warne is over rated but the these two are the best, and you can't really say Warne is better than Murali, but equal most certainly. Laker is numver 3 for me.