The Ashes 2006/07: The Brisbane Test Thread - Day Two

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by gibbs_fan

4) Michael Vaughn. While he never really scores runs, his captaincy is sorely missed. Tactically he is a master and I feel that he gives the team a belief that they can win. Flitoff does not get the same out of his players.

5) Ponting is on form this time round and the whole Aussie team are determined to win back the ashes.

Fair points - but Harmison could have got Ponting early on as bad as he is bowling, lots of Aussie runs came from edges, so maybe some luck will come Englands way.
The teams selection was poor though, a tough ask on players like Cook in Australia, Anderson was called up last tour - but was never played.

Vaughan could not have done any more that Flintoff with the bowlers in that mood, in fact Flintoff rotated his bowlers as good as anyone.
England have 17 wickets left, and 9 sessions are left, they will have to bat with pride and determination, anythings possible.
Changes for the next match are for another thread - and boy there will have to be some.

Originally Posted by Notts Exile 119852

Therein lies the reason for some of the comments.As you rightly say, technique is almost completely irrelevant.

I agree - And so is talking about players from other countries teams, technique in this day and age comes second to determinataion, and guts - I am sorry to say the England trio out had neither, and talking about unplayable is speculation at best, and more likely to be silly, good players don't play at unplayable deliveries, they leave them alone.

Originally Posted by Mr Hutt 119853

I have said it before and ill say it again... horrible ODI form has now carried over to the test matches, now England are faced with a true dilemma,

Mr Hutt, I have been saying just this sinse 2004, my threads on this sunject must sound repetative, but none the less true.

Originally Posted by Mr Hutt

Its not about being a pessimist or gloating Ern its about being realistic. If you saw some of the England players reactions and body language, they lack hunger except for Flintoff!!

Nothing that scoring a 100 runs would not cure, nothing that running in believing you can get a wicket, would not cure.
I am not surprised how England batted, I am surprised the depths the bowling sank to.

If I was Flintoff - I would instruct Bell to try and stay there, and ask Pietersen to Attack (when settled), and Flintoff has to come out and score, or perish - this England side is not capable of defending themselves past the follow on total, but both Pietersen and Flintoff can turn a match round.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by DomainK

If you think you can lose all other matches/tournaments in any form of the game because you are preparing for Ashes, you will probably lose this one as well.

That actually isn't true.

I would personally advocate playing a competely different XI for ODIs.

In my opinion, you do not take a naturally gifted grinder and make him play ODIs. That just ruins his talent.

Players like Cook, Bell and Strauss should never play ODIs. But before they are done on the World scene they will all have played many. Madness.

Obviously Harmison shouldn't play ODIs because he has no control, and Hoggard shouldn't play outside of England, because if there is no swing, he has little threat.

I do think part of England's problems have come from the top. And I am always hugely concerned to hear that a player has had a couple of injections here and there to dissipate his pain.

If you have pain, that is your body's way of telling you something is wrong. If you play through the pain, which you do if you have deadened it, then probably you are doing more damage to yourself.

I think Harmison had two injections the day before the first Test. That's just dumb. How about a couple of aspirin? Or a line of coke? OR go the Darren Gough way and drink several large vodkas the night before.

Off topic, sorry.

No, I don't think England ignore other cricket in favour of the Ashes. But I do think they have an obdurate and stubborn buffoon at the top of the game and we will not make further progress on either front until he is gone.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Ernest

I am not surprised how England batted, I am surprised the depths the bowling sank to.

Unfortunately Ern, I was not surprised with the bowling. Freddie and the Hogster bowled almost as one would expect. Harmison did the same. And Jimmy Anderson bowls too many four balls. That's what happens when you select players who haven't played much for a long time. You suggest that Lewis would have done no better, well I inclined to disagree slightly as he probably (almost certainly) wouldn't have bowled as many loose deliveries (not many bowlers would have done!). Did Giles do as we expected? He certainly didn't do any more. I can't believe that Monty wouldn't have got any more out of the pitch, KP sure did.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

and boy there will have to be some..

What Changes would you make??

Bring in Mahmood - who is wild and unpredicatable for the bowlers who were wild and unpredictable??

Giles was on a hiding to nothing, and bowled slower, tossed the ball up and bowled from round the wicket..

Bring in Read for Jones, but he made no obvious mistakes...

I know you will call for Key, but his record against Australia is hardly one to get the Aussie bowlers worried?? Or you can call up Joyce, for who??

So what changes would you propose???

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Oliver

and Hoggard shouldn't play outside of England, because if there is no swing, he has little threat.

Or in South Africa. Or India. Or Pakistan. Or New Zealand. .................. you're not being fair on the Hogster there Ollie.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

So what changes would you propose???

How about dropping Duncan Fletcher for Rod Marsh?

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

you're not being fair on the Hogster there Ollie.

Read it NE. I said "little threat" not "no threat."

I know that I said "little" because originally I wrote "no" and I thought that was rather unfair.

[Ernest]

I would go further Oliver - I would not let a Test player near a one day match, and anyone who says England should put out their best team in any sort of cricket - would do well to lood at England one day ranking with only Zimbabwe and Bangladesh below them.
The England ODI team is a sorry looking buch of players, but unfortunatly it's the same as the Test side.

Also ger RID of "Central Contracts" - this is damaging players, a few weeks away from England playing for their counties would do lots of good, scrap the one day side, or make it independent.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Also ger RID of "Central Contracts" - this is damaging players, a few weeks away from England playing for their counties would do lots of good, scrap the one day side, or make it independent.

How about removing Geraint Jones from the selection panel?

Then we might get decent wicket-keeping competition. Player a) looks tidy behind the stumps, takes catches and stumpings, completes run-outs (affords commentators the opportunity to mention at great length how nice it is to see a top class 'keeper in action) and his batting though not of the highest class has improved enormously.
Player b) looks untidy behind the stumps, doesn't take catches or stumpings, can occasionally complete a run-out if the incoming batsman is more than thirty yards away, has occasionally scored runs but not at the highest class for so long now that it's a wonder he is allowed to bat as high as seven.

Looks a mighty difficult selection that doesn't it?

Much easier if you're sitting on the selection panel. "Oooh let me think. Yes I think we should take player B. Is that me? Good, I'll write about how nice I am in the Metro then."

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Also ger RID of "Central Contracts" - this is damaging players, a few weeks away from England playing for their counties would do lots of good, scrap the one day side, or make it independent.

They're not going to get rid of Central Contracts but that still shouldn't stop them from letting the players join up with their counties a little more often.

And you know my thoughts on the ODI side. It will remain and has to remain. And the best players should play both, if they are among the best XI in both.