We have been told that Adelaide will favour spin rather than seam or all out pace.

Well I think the Aussies have fought a good propaganda war this time, as well as some good cricket.

They feed bits of disiformation like when Margaret Thatcher got on the BBC World Service and sent a message to the Argies that the Gurka's where going to eat them.

If the pitch is not seam friendly, then why have Australia omitted MacGill from their squad?.

Does not look spin friendly to me - I think Tait and Johnson are a better bet in any case

Hello - anyone at home - MacGill is not playing.
Wars of words - Pommies under fire at grounds - yeah right.
It's a ploy to unsettle England, Australia want the Ashes back, they talk more about England players than their own.
Yes they select the side - mosr likely to lose.
It's all verbal humbug, play one spinner and Mahmood as a bat than can bowl, and England might just win.

Does anyone really think England will win the Adelaide test with two spinners.

Link click here

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Ern

That's the wrong question: the right one is "does anyone think England will give a better account of themselves with two spinners in the side?"

No-one is seriously expecting either Giles or Panesar to rip through the Aussies.... and even When Vettori and Wiseman took every wicket in a recent Adelaide Test... it came at a price, with the Aussies racking up over 500. That said... there's a reason the two spinners bowled the overwhelming majority of overs in that match - once the shine and hardness had gone from the ball they offered more (albeit nothing stunning) to the team than their seam-bowling counterparts!

Let's get one thing straight: the game is likely to swing on inroads made by three seamers during their short spells with the first new ball and (equally importantly) with the second new ball. That's accepted, and whether the three seamers are Aussie or English is of no consequence: they have a big job to do for one spell each with each new ball.

The first question you need to be asking is "how can each side best get through the 60 overs between the first ball going soft and the arrival of the second new ball?"

Should those 60 overs see either side put on nearer 300 runs than 200 runs... as might well happen with the likes of Lee, Anderson or Mahmood bowling many overs... the game is going to be heading firmly in one direction no matter WHAT happens with the second new ball... but if slow bowlers can minimise the damage then the seamers will be in with a shout - and by the time the innings closes the team might well end up restricting the oppostion to around 400-450 rather than 550+.

That's a pretty compelling case... and that's before you consider the possibility of either side looking to defend a significant total on day 5: no bowler of any description guarantees anything... but a result will depend on wickets falling after the first new ball has lost it's hardness and shine and the seamers are reduced to bowling in ODI mode to defensive fields.

Okay than stick in Joyce an extra batsmen and play four bowlers. Spinner, Flintoff, Hoggard and Harmison or Mahmood.
To play five bowlers doesn't work at the moment. To me Mahood and Anderson don't make the grade.
Try the extra batsmen.

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"Checkout the big brain on Brett" Pulp Fiction

I totally agree with John. Our batting hasn't been upto scratch and neither has our bowling, so in theory we can only profit by having an extra run maker and one less bowler being carted.

I think Australia would love England to go in with Panesar and Giles, Ok they may keep them quiet for a while, but my guess is that Ponting will instruct his batsmen to go after Panesar to destroy his confidence, MacGill not playing tells me the wicket will be seamer friendly.

Mahmood who in his 5 games has the best strike rate in the side I would think, a wicket every 50 balls or so @ an average of only about 33 - quite different from his ODI form.

He also gets wickets with the older ball, in fact he is also more accurate with the older ball.

Look at the alternatives England have - horrible Test squad.

6) ..Flintoff
7) ..Mahmood
8) ..Jones
9) ..Giles
10) .Hoggard/Anderson
11) .Harmison/Anderson.

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Ern

With respect Pete that's all it is, do you believe that joyce would have made one jot of a difference had he played in the first innings at the Gabba - IMO I doubt it.

England are a sickly looking batting side like they was in 2005, the only difference this time is the the bowling is ailing also.

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Ern

Wickets against Sri Lanka and Pakistan all at home. Okay it is early days but it hardly adds up to being convincing. I think England will go with Panesar there has been too much media pressure and in this case the media are probably right.
I think they leave out Giles play Harmison and probably stick with Anderson.
Anderson will oblige and again show why he is not a Test bowler.

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"Checkout the big brain on Brett" Pulp Fiction

I'd back Joyce performing over Mahmood anyday of the tour.

You could well be right John.
The problem with the England bowlers is that on their day they are good, Flintoff and Hoggard should out in South Africa.
Harmison is not happy at all, but I watched him in the nets on the news, and he is one big guy, if he gets it right, then australia will wonder what hit them (if).

Anderson has been ruined - I spent the best part of 2005 complaining about his being 12 man for MONTHs at at time, Fletcher has got to be thee worst man manager in the history of Test cricket.

It's obvious that mahmood is no ODI player, yet Fletcher lets him get carted - any bowler gets carted at the death.

Panesar is not tried, experimenting in the Ashes in Australia is not on I don't think.
To be fair Sri Lanka batted well, and so did Inzi - they where no pushovers.

I don't know how you get that Pete, Mahmood has played 5 Tests at an average of about 33, with a better strike rate than the others again about 50'ish.

His stats say he is not a rubbish Test bowler, his stats say he is a rubbish one day bowler, that's what's started the propaganda war against him IMO..

What has Joyce done?.

Say we play Joyce - when in the history of cricket has packing a poor batting side with batsmen to cover that up ever worked?.

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Ern

Team unchanged. Can't believe Panesar isn't playing.