Hide/show banner
Fantasy Cricket

Welcome to the World-A-Team Cricket Forum. We promote friendly, good-natured, quality cricket discussion.
Go Back   World A-Team Cricket Forum > International Test Cricket
Sitemap Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Contact Us Chat Room Shoutbox News Podcasts Fantasy Cricket

International Test Cricket Discuss current and forthcoming matches; general cricket issues, women's Test cricket and First-class matches involving Associate and Affiliate members.

Reply Without Quote
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2006, 09:36 PM
TopperHarley TopperHarley is offline
Maiden century
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
My main national team: I support more than one national team
My other team/s: Scotland, England
Posts: 106
Everybody's fave coach...

Reading through this website and others, it becomes clear that probably 90% of england fans think that the current coach's knowledge of cricket could probably be written down on the back of a postage stamp.

I find it incredible to believe that, based on a couple of close selection calls, he is suddenly clueless. England have lost only one series since the 2002-2003 ashes (away to pakistan) which suggests fletch knows something.

Point 1. "Fletcher's faves" Apparently Chris Read and Monty Panesar are only kept out of the side due to Geraint Jones and Ash giles having some form of blackmail hold on the coach. The purists feel it is a disgrace to pick on character ahead of talent. Presumably these same purists are livid that Flecther fave Collingwood scored 206 runs rather than seeing a technically marvelous run-a-ball 16 from Graeme Hick.

At one point fletcher seemed to be the only man in world cricket who thought Colly was a test match player. Nasser admitted having doubts about him. Athers did not back the coach's hunch on a chubby somerset opener called Trescothick. No one had heard of the firebrand welsh quick bowler. Eyebrows were raised at the selection of 35-averaging yorkshire bat Michael vaughan. People despaired at craig white's recall years ago, yet he did a valuable job until a chap called flintoff lost some weight.

Do all of fletchers picks work out? No, of course not, anthony mcgrath should never have got near an england shirt. Ditto ed smith. However fletch has been proved right about players he did not fancy, such as chris adams and ed giddins.

Last test, fletch got pelters, however giles scored some runs, colly did well at 4 and jones kept wicket faultlessly...(and has been good in this match) whether or not they should have been picked in the first place is a different matter, but it seems to me that fletch is unfairly criticised.

One last thing. I am as excited by monty as anyone, but he has 32 test wickets. he is not a world beater, just a promising bowler.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2006, 10:01 PM in reply to TopperHarley's post "Everybody's fave coach..."
Ernest's Avatar
Ernest Ernest is offline
Administrator
WAT England A Selector
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(WI-captain) Passed Brian Lara's 11953 Test runs
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lancashire
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
My other team/s: ::All "Test" Playing Nations
Posts: 13,566
Send a message via Yahoo to Ernest Send a message via Skype™ to Ernest
Wrong Topper.

For a start Jones is favoured by Fletcher - not Read.
Also Fletcher is being judged on England's results since winning the Ashes in 2005, Giles/Panesar is only a side issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperHarley
Apparently Chris Read and Monty Panesar are only kept out of the side due to Geraint Jones and Ash Giles[...] having some form of blackmail hold on the coach
Blackmail?? - well that's a new slant, I have been reading that Giles and Harmison have only got into the England side due to being big mates of Flintoff.

Fletcher IMO will be judged on the outcome of this Ashes series, not on Panesar/Giles or Read/Jones.

The executive of England cricket - and this includes Fletcher IMO made a serious mistake in letting the England side appear like drunken idiots in front of the whole nation/world in the victory parade, and also underestimating Pakistan.
__________________
Ern
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2006, 10:13 PM in reply to TopperHarley's post "Everybody's fave coach..."
Rachael Rachael is offline
Administrator
WAT selector
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG-captain) Passed Mike Atherton's 7728 Test runs
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Norfolk
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
Posts: 7,755
I've never questioned Fletcher's effectiveness.... and it's certainly been the case, thus far, that he's allowed the captains to shape their teams in their own image. Much of our impression of the guy has therefore been shaped as much by Hussain and Vaughan as by the man himself.

I think it's fair to say that there are many ways of building a successful side... and Fletcher's way... based on backing temperament above talent and on working to produce "multi-dimensional players" (who others might term bits-and-pieces-nobodies) finds support in Woolmer and tied in nicely with Hussain's ambition to become (rather as New-Zealand were) "tough to beat".

The casualties have been talented batsmen, bowlers and glovemen: temperament allows decent players to achieve... consistency: worthy, but hardly noble.

I've a lot of time for the grander vision of Rod Marsh... backing talent, regarding it as the job of the captain and coach to help the players realise what strikes the selectors as potential to go well beyond the merely "consistent". Thus picking Russell (or even Piper) over Stewart, Read over Jones, Ramps over Hussain, Bell over Collingwood, Keedy over Croft / Giles / Batty, pretty much anyone over early-career Flintoff and so on.

With all that said... one thing has consistently appalled me about Fletcher: his obsession with pace. He never had time for Bicknell or Sidebottom. After the last Sri Lanka tour he was ready to consign Hoggard to the same scrapheap (only Vaughan's insistence saved England's most accomplished bowler). He's currently doing the same to Lewis (who should surely have racked up far, far more Tests than Anderson to date).

Last edited by Rachael : 03-12-2006 at 10:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2006, 10:16 PM in reply to Ernest's post starting "Wrong Topper. For a start Jones is..."
Beny's Avatar
Beny Beny is offline
WAT Australia A Selector 2004
WAT Journalist  Read my Articles
(WI-captain) Passed Jimmy Adams' 3012 Test runs
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: Victoria
Posts: 3,027
Send a message via MSN to Beny
I would'nt say that Fletcher is stupid... I would say that he's made plenty of mistakes in this tour and the fact that a few of them have turned out ok does'nt change the reality that they were still wrong.

Not picking Chris Read and Monty Panesar is boadering on criminal... The guys who are occupying their positions are 'jack of all trades, masters of none' at best while quality talent is left on the bench.
__________________
It's hard enough to remember my opinions, without remembering my reasons for them!
Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2006, 10:20 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "I've never questioned Fletcher's..."
Ernest's Avatar
Ernest Ernest is offline
Administrator
WAT England A Selector
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(WI-captain) Passed Brian Lara's 11953 Test runs
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lancashire
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
My other team/s: ::All "Test" Playing Nations
Posts: 13,566
Send a message via Yahoo to Ernest Send a message via Skype™ to Ernest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael
. one thing has consistently appalled me about Fletcher: his obsession with pace. He never had time for Bicknell or Sidebottom. After the last Sri Lanka tour he was ready to consign Hoggard to the same scrapheap. He's currently doing the same to Lewis. It's criminal.
The Ashes 2005 England v Australia.

Fred Flintoff
Simon Jones
Steve Harmison
Matty Hoggard - won the Ashes back for England.

Alternative England attack.

Flintoff
Bicknell
Hoggard
Sidebottom

Rachael are you seriously suggesting this attack would have won back the Ashes like the above line up did?.
__________________
Ern
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2006, 10:27 PM in reply to Beny's post starting "I would'nt say that Fletcher is..."
Ernest's Avatar
Ernest Ernest is offline
Administrator
WAT England A Selector
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(WI-captain) Passed Brian Lara's 11953 Test runs
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lancashire
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
My other team/s: ::All "Test" Playing Nations
Posts: 13,566
Send a message via Yahoo to Ernest Send a message via Skype™ to Ernest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beny
Not picking Chris Read and Monty Panesar is boadering on criminal... The guys who are occupying their positions are 'jack of all trades, masters of none' at best while quality talent is left on the bench.
I would have Chris Read in my side, but Beny can you really see Ponting running scared of Panesar, he might in the next Ashes, but Panesar being part of this tour is giving his experience, Panesar could not have done better than Warne, and he has not been effective at Adelaide.

I suppose being England batsmen have come good, it would not have hurt to give him a try in Giles place, he has done nothing either.

If England were one two up with one to play, that would be different, but England after the Gabba are playing catch up cricket - and playing safe.
__________________
Ern
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2006, 10:31 PM in reply to Ernest's post starting "The Ashes 2005 England v Australia. ..."
Rachael Rachael is offline
Administrator
WAT selector
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG-captain) Passed Mike Atherton's 7728 Test runs
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Norfolk
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
Posts: 7,755
I've no problem with 2005-vintage Simon Jones, Flintoff and Harmison being picked... but Jones was dire prior to that season (making Devon Malcolm look like Brian Statham) and Mahmood, for instance, should not have played a single Test last summer.... and that's just typical Fletcher.

Last edited by Rachael : 03-12-2006 at 10:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2006, 10:45 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "I've no problem with 2005-vintage Simon..."
Beny's Avatar
Beny Beny is offline
WAT Australia A Selector 2004
WAT Journalist  Read my Articles
(WI-captain) Passed Jimmy Adams' 3012 Test runs
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: Victoria
Posts: 3,027
Send a message via MSN to Beny
Quote:
but Beny can you really see Ponting running scared of Panesar
Right at the momment I can't see Ponting running scared of anybody... But certinly not Giles. If you are going to pick a spinner then pick a half decent spinner not some guy who can lob a few up and then hopefully score 20 or 30 runs later on.
__________________
It's hard enough to remember my opinions, without remembering my reasons for them!
Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2006, 11:24 PM in reply to Beny's post starting "Right at the momment I can't see..."
Quagmire's Avatar
Quagmire Quagmire is offline
WAT World Cup Predictor
WAT Journalist
Moderator
(SA) Passed Colin Bland's 1669 Test runs
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: melbourne
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: Victoria, Lancashire, Durham
Posts: 1,646
I can't see Panesar doing much in Australia he is not in the same class as other offspinners like Vettori, Singh or Muralitharan. He obviously is not rated by the English camp as being any better with the ball than Giles otherwise he would be in the side.
__________________
Bill Ponsford - The only one who could play in Bradman’s company and make it a duet.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2006, 11:24 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "I've no problem with 2005-vintage Simon..."
Ernest's Avatar
Ernest Ernest is offline
Administrator
WAT England A Selector
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(WI-captain) Passed Brian Lara's 11953 Test runs
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lancashire
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
My other team/s: ::All "Test" Playing Nations
Posts: 13,566
Send a message via Yahoo to Ernest Send a message via Skype™ to Ernest
Malcolm: Tests 40 8480 4748 128 9/57 10/137 37.09 3.35 66.25 7 5 2

Bicknell Tests 4 1080 543 14 4/84 6/155 38.78 3.01 74.14 1 0 0

Sidebottom only played one Test - with no wickets.

He played two ODIs taking two wickets at an average of 42 with an econ rate of six.

Look at Devon Malcolm's fine record - played 40 matches with a strike rate of 66.25 - compared with Bicknells 74.14.

Dev Malcolm took his wickets @an average of 37.09 - compared with Bicknell @38.78.

Ok Bicknell and Sidebottom did not play many matches, but Malcolm kept this excellent strike rate up for 40 matches, and bowled at the likes Of Richards and co.

How would England's chances of squaring the series be if Malcolm was able to take Anderson.s place, pretty good I reackon.
Also England have a malcolm type bowler in Mahmood, if ever he was to be given a chance - it would be when England had scored 550-6 dec.
__________________
Ern

Last edited by Ernest : 03-12-2006 at 11:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply Without Quote


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 02:52 AM.

Page generated in 0.699 seconds (62.46% PHP - 37.54% MySQL) with 13 queries

Partner Sites: - pakistancricketzone.com | Fantasy Cricket | Cricket World Cup Images | Cricket 24/7 | Third Umpire | Indian Cricket League

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0