A first rate assessment: I'd quibble slightly here and there... but the basic story is surely right: the Ashes win of 2005 was based on home advantage (notable the duke ball and the abrasive pitches that facilitated reverse swing and conventional swing at Trent Bridge)... and had the Ashes of 2005 been played in Aus... or had the same crew been playing this series on the supposedly 'top' form of 2005.... the difference might well have been marginal.

As batsmen, Cook has surely done better than Tresco would have done (Cook exudes a class Tresco never had, and just look at Tresco's average in Aus: it sucks). Bell has gone from ordinary to truly world class as Flintoff and Jones have gone from ordinary to poor. My quibble would be Collignwood vs. Vaughan: the latter showed four years earlier that he's capable of making Pietersen look ordinary on an Aussie track... and whilst Collingwood has had some decent knocks... he's no Vaughan!

Beyond that... Vaughan's captaincy has surely been missed: not an impact that's easily quantifiable... but the tactical nous and man-management skills came across as far better in his tenure.

The bowling I'd quibble with slightly. On the plus side, Hoggard has become far better a bowler: his contribution has been immense... and far more impresive (if underbowled with the new ball) in these three Tests than Harmison was in the final four of 2005 (after he briefly shone at Lords). Flintoff hasn't quite been the same force with the different ball... but he was always going to be pretty much straight up and down with a kookaburra. Anderson for Jones, though, has been a tad more serious than you suggets: Jones did leak a few runs in Anderson-style... but I thought his mastery of conventional swing at Trent Bridge boded well for devastating spells in Australia - he briefly looked the best bowler in world cricket.... and I'm willing to see that as a big difference between the 2005 side and this current side.

Oh... and Panesar has been a factor that didn't exist in 2005

The side led by Graham Gooch was i think the best English side i have seen

England have been seriously outplayed in Aus

I think Vaughns captaincy and simon jones would have made a difference, Panesar also would have made a difference.. he didnt exist in 2005 and in 2006 Fletcher and co made sure he didnt have an impact either.

Ponting has now set his sights on 5-0 and unless something miraculous happens i cant see that as beign far fetched right now.

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You can't have it both ways - either the Aussies are great and therefore Tres struggling against them highlights hid deficencies, or their not, in which case it doesn't matter that Tres has a blip against them. Which one is it!?

I suspect the difference between Tresco's average in Australia and Ramprakash's average in Australia is a fair reflection of the technical gulf between them as players... and I'd rate the Aussie attack of the Ramps-Tresco years as the one attack that's been good enough to make this matter (albeit not on all occasions and against all sides).

Collingwood's double century and unbeaten rearguard blocking is a case in point of technically lesser player thriving in one match... but it's worth noting that this was on a pitch so low and slow as to be almost sub-continental: by and large I would single out McGrath, Warne and co, on bouncy Aussie wickets, as a combination capable of bringing most aspects of technical brilliance to the fore.

One obvious exception: it's pained me, over the years, to see just how little the Aussies have either explored opposition strengths against swing... or had their own strenghts on this front tested. Lee has clogged up the spot in the Aussie side that should have been consistenly occupied by an accomplished swing bowler in the Hoggard / Mohammed Asif mould.

For that one reason I always hold back from regarding recent Aussie attacks as truly special: no side who has Ricky Ponting as its greatest exponent of the finest bowling craft can be called a complete attack!

Which makes Vaughan's tour 4 years ago even more surprising as he has only shown glimpses of similar form before and since.

No., rach is right, it was another tresco who second in the 05 ashes english batting averages. Silly us. Lets not let facts get in the way of a player you dont like !

That said its difficult to assess. Robin Smith at number 3 would be nice, a fletcher-esque response to Ramps would have been nice, and lord knows Alex Stewart would be useful now. I cant remember the spinnig situation being much better then (salisbury, hemmings, illingworth - take a bow) But they didnt have fred, KP is in danger of being an incredible batsman. We dont have a revolving door policy now, but arguably an open door policy of once picked always picked whether you are performing or not.

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Was the 2005 Ashes held in Australia?

Touche. As far as I read, you didnt restrict Trescos performances agianst the aussies to away tests only. If you did then I'm wrong.

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