Also he is surprisingly good in the fielding department.

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Bill Ponsford - The only one who could play in Bradman’s company and make it a duet.

Oh! So that's why the Aussies refused to play test cricket against New Zealand until the 70s

Seriously though, the comparison between Vettori and Panesar is always going to be more than a little unfair at this stage. Panesar has been playing international cricket for five minutes whilst Vettori has been playing for 10 years. If Panesar continues to play for the next 10 years, I would fully expect him to develop the same understanding of the subtleties of the game as Vettori, and hopefully not have the same back problems Vettori suffers with.

Obviously, there's a few big 'ifs' in there, but surely a fairer comparison would be Vettori vs Panesar after 1 year of test cricket

TEST (after 13 tests)

Vettori Bowling: 45 wickets @ 32.42 Batting: 250 runs @ 15.62
Panesar Bowling: 42 wickets @ 33.71 Batting: 86 runs @ 8.6

ODI (after 12 ODIs)

Vettori Bowling: 8 wickets @ 45.62 Batting: 90 runs @ 18.0
Panesar Bowling: 11 wickets @ 41.00 Batting: 6 runs @ 6.0

So, at the same stage in their careers, the difference in their bowling performance was minimal. Very minimal in fact. Obviously, Vettori is a cut above with his batting, but bowling wise, they've made very similar starts and Panesar in 10 years could well be as good if not better than Vettori is now.

That said, who would I have playing for me today? Well, it would have to be Danny V!

I need some evidence of where Panesar has folded please as you may be right but I can't recall it.

Now you've picked me up on the ODI forum for asking if you were talking about tests so I've got to point out that however the aussies rate bowlers in odis this is the test thread Quaggy and therefore inadmissable

Regarding Aus and England never having close games, I don't know how old you are but I'm sure you can cast your mind back for more than 20 months!! I also would just like to point out that despite the opinion of many aussie fans test cricket did not start in the 1990s!

For me I would go with Panesar, having seen him bamboozle the Pakistani and Australian batsmen in turn, neither of whom are mugs vs spin.

May just be my opinion but I have never really rated Danny boy that highly, to me he is about on a par with Giles.

Exactly what I was thinking. Great minds think alike . I fully expect Panesar to bloom into a player like Vettori if he can have a carear as long as 10 years. Hopefully he can and we will debate about Monty and a new and up-coming left arm spinner.

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I AM THE BEST THERE IS
THE BEST THERE WAS
THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE

One of the reasons for this silly "Montysteria" is because there have not been many like him before playing for England - a Sikh who can spin the ball. No doubt that he is a good bowler, but nothing special really in the wide world sense. All that overblown adulation can only result in undue pressure on the long run.

Come on, England have been waiting for a bowler of Monty's capability since... ooh... Edmonds at least, if not Underwood... Credit where credits due. IMO Monty will get up to a "world-class" level, but it takes time.

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"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose."
- Ayrton Senna

Is that why in his first few series he has bowled out some of the worlds finest players of spin. Yes, Panesar is far from the finished article but he clearly has the potential to be a world class SLA. He is a league above any of the other non-spinners we have picked over the last 10 years.

Given some good field placings - not the rubbish he got in the Ashes, he will take wickets and be economical. He has already lifted himself above the no.11 position with the bat and he is not a "joke" fielder anymore, although clearly more work needs to be done.

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Mark.

Too much hype surrounds english players as usual. Give it a rest, for once. Let the dust settle, allow the teams to figure him out and then see what happens.

"Potential to be world class blah blah", heard it all before. I might be disrespectful in saying these things so if have offended please don't take it personally.......