Hmmm, this is a difficult one. Whilst as such, professional sportsman shouldnt be out drinking at 4am its hasnt done some (i.e Botham) any harm.
If Flintoffs performances had been stellar over the past few months he would have probably gotten away with just a warning.
Although personally i dont think its great to have your senior player (and at some point captain) setting a bad example to the younger players, especially before a big game.
When all is said and done though this kick up the backside might be what Flintoff needs, he may realise that he has to put the work in and perform in the middle and also that he isnt garanteed a place in the team. He may also feel a bit embarrassed and "take it out" on his opponents.

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Mark.

Andy it's not just defending Flintoff - I am annoyed that he got three punishments, when he was the first of the offenders back at the hotel.
The others who stayed on drinking - just got a fine, it is thought he left early to set an example, but on his own at the hotel he decided for some reason to go in a pedalo.

It's not really the end of the matter for Flintoff - he remains stripped of the vice captaincy, after being banned for a game, and being fined.
Yes England should have waited to see if his performance had been effected, Anderson - Bell and Plunkett played, and they got back to the hotel later than Flintoff - it's hard to tell with Bell what effects his performance.

The press have always been on Flintoffs back - they only jumped on the bandwagon in 2004, like many others, he was a hero in 2005 - what's changed?.
The press attitude to Flintoff, and his fair-weather supporters.

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Ern

But he was vice captain, Ern. The example he should have been setting was by not going out on the lash AT ALL! For pete's sake, this is the middle of the foremost ODI tournament in the world, only 30 hours before a make-or-break match against Canada, and he's getting half cut and putting himself at risk of drowning?

The punishment fits for him as he was Vice Captain and should know better. If any of those other players had been the VC then I'd have expected them to get the same punishment.

Also, I think Flintoff will see that as the end of the matter. The punishment is suitable for the crime and I would bet on him coming out for the next game all guns blazing to try and make up for it.

The Times debate on this matter is entitled Should Flintoff be sent home?

Rachael the Times is not what it used to be - for a while it has been no better than the Sun.
I don't believe for a minute that any England player would have allowed Flintoff to drag them out to drink - in fact if you listened to TMS - it was reported that he left EARLY to set an example to the other players.

I think I was the only person on WAT to criticise Flintoff for this:-
The England management should not have allowed this public behaviour, Flintoff looked a disgrace on the team bus - he also should not have been allowed in Downing street in that condition.

The ECB by allowing such drunken behaviour - set the tone and standard that seems to have followed on, they had the chance to nip the drinking in the bud in the autumn of 2005.

I don't agree with drunken behaviour - but it was OK when the ECB was basking in the glory of 2005 - made possible by Flintoff.

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Ern

1. Vice captaincy lost because as a vice captain he was out after curfew and what happened at 4.00 a.m appeared on the front page of a newspaper.
2. He was banned for one match because he had been warned a few times before about his drinking. For the other players it was their first offence and it was breaking of the curfew and not drunk in charge of a pedalo.
3. He was fined as the other players were for breaking the team discipline rules.

There's something incredibly funny about this image, but also quite sad. Drunk in charge of a pedalo. He's nearly 30 and he's acting like a teenager out on his first holiday to Benidorm

You can't spit events up like that - you have to take the events as a whole, with the possible exception of past warnings.

Has he received these warnings in the past? - is that a confirmed fact, or a press rumour?.

I find it astonishing that if Flintoff has received these multiple warnings as recent as the one day series in Australia, that the ECB would sanction his appointment of vice captain of England - in this World Cup series.

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Ern

He left the drinking early - how do you know - is that fact or press roumor - I can leave a party early, but that does not mean I have stopped partying, just not at the original place.

You keep saying he left early to set an example - prove it. If he left, how do you know thats the reason he left. It may have been because he was board and left to go drink somewhere else - and we find him at 4.00 am in the sea drunk - looks like to me that he kept drinking somewhere - so how do you connect that to someone your saying was trying to set an example.

Once again you quote reporters, yet there is no way this can be confirmed that was the reason why he left - if he did leave early. You are using that as a defence, without having any proof of its reliability.

This is exactly how it would have been looked at - how can you punish the other players the same way as Flintoff as he is the vice captain - he has a responsibility to the team, which he failed to up hold.

Well here you refuse to accept press rumours (as you qoute them), yet in your defence of Flintoff thats exactly what you have been using.

According to TMS, and they where interviewing I think NOTW who published these allagations in the first place, Flintoff left early ALONE - it was after he got back to the hotel, he was hot - and probably bored, that he decided to go out in a pedalo.


Was he drunk by that time?-I have not heard he was drunk in the pedalo, just that he was spashing, and ashed a lifeguard for hep.
being in trouble does not mean drunk.

Not at all - I was asking a fair question, would you as selectors give the captaincy, or vice captaincy to a man who had been diciplined multiple times - I think not, but if so, you should accept the risks.

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Ern