I dont think its responsible for any sportsmen let alone the Vice Captain of the England team to behave in such a manner. If you want to be an international star you have to bear the responsibility that comes with that. Loutish behaviour rarely sets good examples. It was appalling to see him tottering about in 2005 post Ashes and the last incident is simply disgraceful. No one should think that just because of them being famous they are un punishable. Pak has suffered already ala Shoaib and Asif as a result of this mentality! I think the England managment are on the right track here!! Plus defence of drunken hooliganish behaviour to me is quite silly!

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I really don't think you can defend Freddie on this one, and having read your attempts, they just seem like straw grasping.

The fact is that the ECB released a statement that Freddie had been warned before, and Nasser in his interview implied that that had been during the Ashes tour while Fred was Captain.

To say that he got bored at 4 in the morning and so went for a ride on a pedalo is just odd. He should have been in bed!!

The difference between this behaviour and his post-Ashes behaviour is context. On his post-Asshes bender he had just won, he had no more Cricket to play and celebration was appropriate. This incident, they haven't even got through the first round, and had just lost a crucial game. This is why this behaviour was not acceptable.

Why was he punished harder:-

1. As vice-Captain, senior member of the team, and most experienced player - he should expect his behaviour to live up to that. If you accept a position of responsibility, you have to accept the terms that it come with.
2. None of the other players were caught on a Pedalo, having to be rescued at 4am!! They may have broken Curfew, but it seems that none of them decided they were also Popeye the sailor man!!

Flintoff has accepted his mistake, and will hopefully learn from it. http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/co...ry/285887.html

When we last toured the West Indies Fred and Harmy gave up Alcohol for the tour (they broke their vow only after Harmy destroyed the West Indies in the first Test). But that was a tour that made Freddie great. Fred should put the booze aside for a few weeks, because he plays better when he is focused. If we win the tournament, then he can drink to his heart's content.

Lets get this right - as I understand from along interview on TMS - Flintoff was NOT warned during the ashes, but during the one day series.

Again while he was playing Popeye ar you put it, the other where still at the club drunking.

The version I listened to (I think it was a reporter from the News of the world on TMS) - said "Flintoff had left early, and retured to his hotel" - being hot it was said "he went out in a pedalo", I have forgot the rest - but Flintoff was not the main drinker on this occasion.

What's to learn? - he knew the rules, what he would not have expected would be three punishments.
Who say he has not been focused?, there is no suggestion that I know off that he drank before the New Zealand game.

And would Anderson and Plunkett been focused after their late night drinking, if drinking effects players that much, then they should have not played.

Bell played despite not being focused through drinking, and looking at his form - he should have been dropped also.

Could it be that the ECB have regretted making Flintoff captain, and made this an excuse to get rid of him.

In any case it was silly he should not have been punished while the World Cup was going - it would have made more sense to have a hearing AFTER the World Cup.

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Ern

Hence, why I said the Ashes TOUR...

Yes, but that is apparently because he was already so drunk, he went home early, not because of any desire to obey the rules. The other guys are less experienced, but Fred should have known better and if he wants to be the Captain, should not have been the involved at all


True, but we are not through yet and therefore the game just 48 hours later was crucial.

This is not about having a few drinks after a game, this is about getting drunk, endangering his life and others, and being part of an all night session in the middle of the biggest tournament in World Cricket. That is not the actions of a guy who should be vice-Captain, and consequently he lost that privileged position.

You know I am big fan, and defender (like you) of Freddies position in the team, but on this occasion I find it very difficult to justify how stupid he was.

Sorry Ern, if these things are not dealt with early then the players could think they have got away with it, and endanger our chances to win the tournament. You have to tackle this early. As for some ridiculous conspiracy theory, well if the ECB wanted a reason, then Fred handed to them on plate.

We will hear Fred's version later on today, as he has already made hisapologies, I expect that we shall hear an honest account of what he got up to.

No way,doing it now was the right thing to do.If they hadn't it would have sent out a message that they could do what they like on this jolly as the management obviously weren't taking the competition seriously.Flintoff got what he deserved and now i hope he can put it behind him and start doing what he is paid an awful lot of money to do,play decent cricket.

On the plus side, it's had the great side effect of Flintoff being allowed nowhere near the captaincy should Vaughan get injured again.

Which is great!

A shame Strauss isn'tplaying as he would be my pick.
I wonder how COllingwood would fair? I think we won't see it as we shall undoubtedly lose to Kenya.

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Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi

I am not so sure this is as ridiculous as it sounds - vaughan for one would like to have seen the back of Flintoff as a possible long term replacement to him - that would also explain why vaughan stalked the England team during the Ashes.
Specualation that may well be but so was that paragraph in The Times that Rachael linked us to earlier, when it was said he dragged the others (meaning Lewis Bell Plunkett and Anderson) with him.

flanny these are grown men with minds of their own - they could have said no-if that report is true.

Flintoff IMO will say - what he has been told to say, an attempt a closing ranks will take place.
He could have been reprimanded and a date set for a hearing, like the PCB/ICC did after the Oval affair.

If you are so bothered about the England management image greg, then would you say Bell - Anderson and plunkett would be fit to play after their night on the pop, should England have not dropped them also - for-
a) Being not fit to play.
b) To send out the right message to the cricketing world - that England are interested in winning the world Cup.

Forget Flintoff being vice capain for a moment - the other players stayed out drinking longer, Flintoff floundered in a pedalo - if they were hung over and tired, they could not have focust on their play also, born out by that horrible game with Canada.

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Ern

The difference is it was the first offence for the others,Flintoff had transgressed numerous times before.They had to take action against him and fining the others was the right thing to do.

Nobody is bigger than the team but Flintoff appears to think he is,hence he has committed the same offence on more than one occasion.

Flintoff was banned not because he wasn't fit to play, but because he breached team discipline, something he has been warned for before.

Clearly the warnings were not good enough and it was felt that he needed something stronger, and so he was banned.

As pointed out Australia did the same thing with Symonds, so it is not unusual for teams to do this. Maybe this time Flintoff will heed the warning, before he gets sent home...

Only 4 names were given to the press by fans, Plunkett, Lewis, Anderson and Bell. Not Nixon. Originally it was just fines for the 4 until the pedalo story broke. Nixon was also fined so he could have been with Flintoff at the pedalo incident. I can't imagine that Flintoff was on the beach alone. He might have gone on to another club with Nixon.

Out after curfew - Plunkett, Bell, Anderson, Lewis, Nixon, Flintoff, Shine, Snape.