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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2007, 01:59 AM in reply to Seamer's post starting "Who you are is determined by where you..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamer View Post
Who you are is determined by where you spent your informative years.[...] Notice how many members here that live in England actually support their non-English home teams?[...] That is for the same reason and is natural. His mum may be English,[...] but he certainly is'nt You can take the man out of South Africa, but you cannot take the South African out of the man.
  • It could well be Seamer - who you spent your imformative years with, not just where.
  • If I moved to Pakistan or India - my first team would be England, the reason is I was born and BRED in England, and BOTH my parents are English.
  • You can take the South African (part) out of the man IMO, who you are, and what you think in later years depends a lot on family ties - for example more than 75% I would say will vote for Conservative or Labour depending on the political views of their parents: Pietersen is no different IMO.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2007, 04:58 AM in reply to Ernest's post starting "It could well be Seamer - who you spent..."
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There's no I in Pietersen, oh wait there is and that is the reason why he should never be captain of such a great cricketing nation like England. Just because he is the best batsman or the best player doesnt mean that he should be captain.

Reasons why he should never be captain
  1. He is South African, England should have an English captain!!!
  2. He seems to act like he is bigger than the English cricket team
  3. Too much pressure could ruin his batting
  4. I don't think he has the cricketing brain of a Vaughan, Ponting, Fleming or Strauss!!!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2007, 10:42 AM in reply to Seamer's post starting "Who you are is determined by where you..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamer View Post
But in some ways, i like your theory. Because that means we can happily palm off Rolf Harris, Barry Humpheries and Jason Donavan as English
Please God no, anything but that!

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Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
Too much pressure could ruin his batting
Unfortunately we wouldn't know until he actually was captain. For all we know, he could be the next Lara - better batsman with the captaincy, but drags the team through the mire and England end up 6th or 7th best in the world.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2007, 02:52 PM in reply to Quagmire's post starting "There's no I in Pietersen, oh wait..."
Wanderer Wanderer is offline
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Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
Reasons why he should never be captain: He is South African, England should have an English captain!!!
  1. Wasn't Nasser Hussain born in India?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire
He seems to act like he is bigger than the English cricket team
Wel, actually he acts like he's bigger than cricket...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire
I don't think he has the cricketing brain of a Vaughan, Ponting, Fleming or Strauss!!!
Lets put this in perspective. I think he does not have the cricketing brain of a Graeme Smith! (And that says a lot )
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Old 04-06-2007, 03:55 PM in reply to Wanderer's post starting "Wasn't Nasser Hussain born in..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Wasn't Nasser Hussain born in India?
Quite right.

We could name quite a few non-English born skippers. Don't think that would be held against him, I think the fact he does not seem to have the leadership potential of other candidates would be the major problem.

Has he ever Captained at County Level? I don't think so....

I am not convinced by the assumption that the best player makes the best captain... There are so many examples where this hasn't worked - Tendulkar, Warne (would have been a good captain on the field - his problems were off it), Shaun Pollock, Botham, Flintoff....etc

One of the parts of the Schofield report that I loved was that the England team would develop the leadership potential of younger players and develop them for the future, I would hope that Vaughan would stay in charge for three to four years, and then you would see the emergence of someone like Cook, who at 25 would be an ideal age to skipper the side long term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schofield report section 8
The establishment of mentoring and development programmes for players who are in, or have the potential to be in, Captaincy and leadership roles within England cricket.

Last edited by flanflinger : 04-06-2007 at 03:58 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2007, 06:21 PM in reply to flanflinger's post starting "Quite right. We could name quite a few..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Lets put this in perspective. I think he does not have the cricketing brain of a Graeme Smith! (And that says a lot )
Do you know what, I actually flirted with putting that in my last post!
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Originally Posted by flanflinger View Post
Has he ever Captained at County Level? I don't think so....

I am not convinced by the assumption that the best player makes the best captain... [...] Warne (would have been a good captain on the field - his problems were off it),
No, Pietersen's record as a captain is one solitary second eleven Trophy fixture for Nottinghamshire. He scored a century as Notts won, for what it's worth.

Warne sometimes lets his temprement get the better of him, especially when he thinks the other side should declare - he ended up bowling lobs against Middlesex at the tail end of last season, then managed to make an over against Kent a few weeks ago last nearly 10 minutes to force Rob Key (a notoriously cautious declarer) into taking the hint. What worries me is if KP takes too close a captaincy style to Warne - he's a bit too adventureous sometimes!
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2007, 09:25 PM in reply to adamberry's post starting "Do you know what, I actually flirted..."
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I think some of you are mystifying captaincy. Firstly what makes a side are quality players. Tendulkar would still be the same player under a good capitain or bad captain. Andre Nel wouldn't become a great bowler under a good captain.
If Pietersen is made captain and he is poor you sack him its as simple as that. The reason to make him captain is now he has played around three years international cricket where he has been a resounding success.
There is no proof he thinks he is bigger than English cricket. If he does why has he done so well?
What I want is evidence! Various people said Thorpe wasn't a team man. Where has any English player or coaching staff said Pietersen is no team player. Yes he may have his own opinions but that does not mean he is not a team player.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2007, 10:47 PM in reply to John's post starting "I think some of you are mystifying..."
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I've no objections to Pietersen. I don't care about his nationality. I'm a LITTLE peturbed by what seemed at the time to be an unwillingness to fit in at Notts (but not seriously, as he was younger then). I'm also not doubting that with the right coach at the helm... he could do a passable job.

The thing is.. England have, in guys like Vaughan, Strauss, Bell, Collingwood, Joyce, Cook and others... far, FAR more promising captains. If the alternatives were Flintoff, Prior or Mahmood then sure, Pietersen would be appealing.. but he faces some VERY stiff competition... and just ain't anywhere near top of the heap!
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 12:48 AM in reply to Rachael's post starting "I've no objections to Pietersen. I..."
Jebjab Jebjab is offline
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I think from an outsiders point of view..the most logical solution to the English Captaincy is one Alaister Cook...only 22 has a good future ahead of him appears to be favour with selectors and has the right attitude at this point...There have been many successful "non" english Captains but why not have an Englishman Captain England?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 03:04 AM in reply to Jebjab's post starting "I think from an outsiders point of..."
Younis Khan #1 Younis Khan #1 is offline
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I thought Nasser Hussain was the first and only ever England captain of mixed ethnicity? - Or am i wrong?
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