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View Poll Results: The greatest cricket captain
Richie Benaud 2 16.67%
Mike Brearley 0 0%
Len Hutton 0 0%
Don Bradman 0 0%
Frank Worrell 1 8.33%
Steve Waugh 2 16.67%
Stephen Fleming 0 0%
Imran Khan 4 33.33%
Someone Else (please specify) 3 25.00%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2007, 12:09 PM in reply to Ninjaman's post starting "Clive Lloyd's first series as captain..."
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pie_chucker pie_chucker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
His supposed lack of tactical nous is grossly exaggerated and patently untrue. Whilst there may be more tactically aware captains, he devised the idea of what the West Indies of the late 70s/early 80s would be. It was he he put in place the blueprint, highlighted the bowlers needed and used them to great effect. It was he who realised the need for fitness development and made them into not just the best bowling outfit but the fittest and most athletic unit and the best fielding side too.
I dont think his tactical nous was ever tested.....

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He wielded huge influence and respect and punished any indiscretions in the team (and there were many!).
When they went out on the field, like Worrell before him, he united the players from the federation of countries that form the WI into an effective fighting unit they defeated all comers.
Couldnt argue there.

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Clive Lloyd did it and built the greatest side EVER.
Again, couldnt argue there.

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Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
It was always funny reading journalists, nearly always English, who were "purists" who would moan and whinge that Lloyd built a side that used 4 fast bowlers to destroy his opposition. They complained that he never had any need for a spinner as if having a spinner is a selectorial must. They never moaned when the treatment had been dished out to WI in the early part of Lloyd's reign. After that Aussie mauling he vowed that from then on the WI would never suffer like that again on his watch.
I've never complained about that Windies side, infact IMO they were the greatest side ever and a team i still like to watch.

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Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
When you sow the seed and nurture the development of a team and then lead (from the front) and carry them to the pinnacle of the game all time, then you are great.
His off the field work and discipline he instilled into that team does mark him down as one of the greats, still not sure about his on field tactical nous though, i mean all he had to decide was who to thow the ball to next; Marshall, Holding, Croft, Garner, Roberts.....

Still , a good post there Ninjaman and so far you have made the most convincing argument as to why your choice is the greatest.
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Last edited by pie_chucker : 10-06-2007 at 12:11 PM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2007, 02:06 PM in reply to pie_chucker's post starting "I dont think his tactical nous was ever..."
Jebjab Jebjab is offline
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What we are all loosing sight of and NOT taking into consideration is most of the Captains are being selected from different eras of playing..Just how hard or easy is it to lead a team of champions as opposed to a good team. Bradmans team of 1948 cannot be compared successsfully to Pontings team of 2006..different rules,methods of training,pays,fitness levels etc etc etc have to be taken into consideration.So, really how can any of us compare Captains ? Maybe the question should have been more specific and related to decades
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2007, 03:38 PM in reply to pie_chucker's post starting "I dont think his tactical nous was ever..."
Ninjaman Ninjaman is offline
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pie chucker, you replied to my post as if I was "getting at you". Don't worry. I'm not.

Just giving a reason to my initial choice.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2007, 07:51 PM in reply to Ninjaman's post starting "pie chucker, you replied to my post as..."
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No worries Ninjaman, I didnt think you were getting at me!

Despite what that Windies side did to us, unlike a lot of Englishmen I hold that team in high regard and have a soft spot for them (dont know why though).

BTW, I liked the justification of your choice!
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Old 11-06-2007, 09:39 AM in reply to pie_chucker's post starting "No worries Ninjaman, I didnt think you..."
Milo Milo is offline
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For the reasons most have said, I think the top two are Imran and Lloyd. I find it very difficult to separate them. Both were able to unite sides of individuals (something that has been impossible to do since they left) and both performed at the top of their game as skipper. Would Imran be able to lead the side effectively if he couldn't draw on his own services? He really was an awesome player - sorted out the world cup by promoting himself up the batting line up and made the best Pakistan side (able to hold Viv's WIndies side in 86 and 88) by throwing the ball to himself and bowling like a King.

Lloyd won the world cup in 75 with a side that had very few of the great bowlers people talk about. The influence of the mauling at the hands of Lillee and Thomson cannot be understated here. Lloyd clearly turned that experience into a positive.

I cannot understand why Ian Chappell and Jardine have not got a mention here. For the record, I always had Imran captaining my world all time XI - mainly due to the fact that Lloyd didn't get a place.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2007, 02:52 PM in reply to Milo's post starting "For the reasons most have said, I think..."
south beds mikey south beds mikey is offline
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I cast my vote for Douglas Jardine. He developed a tactic that virtually halved the average of the greatest batsman ever.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 13-06-2007, 02:11 PM in reply to south beds mikey's post starting "I cast my vote for Douglas Jardine. He..."
Jebjab Jebjab is offline
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ONLY for that series.It was a different story when the Aussies went back to England
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 14-06-2007, 08:23 AM in reply to Jebjab's post starting "ONLY for that series.It was a different..."
Milo Milo is offline
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ONLY for that series.It was a different story when the Aussies went back to England
Jardine didn't play that series so the efforts of Bradman in 34 are not relevant.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 14-06-2007, 09:18 AM in reply to Milo's post starting "Jardine didn't play that series so the..."
Jebjab Jebjab is offline
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So 304 in 425 minutes at Leeds on that 34 tour is not relevant?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 14-06-2007, 09:22 AM in reply to Jebjab's post starting "So 304 in 425 minutes at Leeds on that..."
Milo Milo is offline
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So 304 in 425 minutes at Leeds on that 34 tour is not relevant?
Given that we are talking about Jardine as captain and that Bob Wyatt was the England captain on that tour, then yes it is irrelevant.
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