Hide/show banner
Fantasy Cricket

Welcome to the World-A-Team Cricket Forum. We promote friendly, good-natured, quality cricket discussion.
Go Back   World A-Team Cricket Forum > International Test Cricket
Sitemap Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Contact Us Chat Room Shoutbox News Podcasts Fantasy Cricket

International Test Cricket Discuss current and forthcoming matches; general cricket issues, women's Test cricket and First-class matches involving Associate and Affiliate members.

Reply Without Quote
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2007, 10:26 PM in reply to Aurelius's post starting "Only in cricket could an umpire get..."
Ernest's Avatar
Ernest Ernest is online now
Administrator
WAT England A Selector
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(WI-captain) Passed Brian Lara's 11953 Test runs
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lancashire
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
My other team/s: ::All "Test" Playing Nations
Posts: 13,619
Send a message via Yahoo to Ernest Send a message via Skype™ to Ernest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Only in cricket could an umpire get fired for doing his job,[..] and then be ridiculed by the governing body!
And that sums it up, he was singled out there were two umpires, a third umpire and a match referee, and hair cops the lot - I hope he make a million.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaman
But are you telling me you didn't spare yourself at least a little chuckle when he took that catch in the WC and his celebration after?
He made me chuckle a lot, but he made the game richer IMO - and I think Speedboy is right, I would pay to watch him in County cricket.
__________________
Ern
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007, 06:53 AM in reply to Ernest's post starting "And that sums it up, he was singled out..."
Nostromo's Avatar
Nostromo Nostromo is offline
(ENG) Passed Eddie Paynter's 1540 Test runs
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wootton Bassett, England
My main national team: India
My other team/s: Any team that plays well with a big heart
Posts: 1,582
The phrase "racially aligned" to describe the ICC is an unusual one, but I am beginning to think that there is something in it. The big point in Hair's favour in this situation is that he was blatantly singled out and Doctove left alone in the fiasco. If this becomes a legal issue of Hair vs ICC, not only are the chances that the Aussie will win, the ICC could lose a lot of credibility (assuming, of course, that it had much of that in the first place).
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007, 02:37 PM in reply to Nostromo's post starting "The phrase "racially aligned"..."
pie_chucker's Avatar
pie_chucker pie_chucker is offline
Moderator
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(SA) Passed Colin Bland's 1669 Test runs
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northumberland, England
My main national team: England
My other team/s: Durham, Newcastle United
Posts: 1,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostromo View Post
...not only are the chances that the Aussie will win...
Especially as Doctrove is appearing at the tribunal in support of Hair.

Personally i cant see how the ICC can get out of this. Hair broke no rules and by their own admission was in the top 3 umpires on the Elite list at the time of his "sacking". This infers that he was sacked for reasons other than poor performance.......
__________________
Mark.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007, 04:12 PM in reply to pie_chucker's post starting "Especially as Doctrove is appearing at..."
Nostromo's Avatar
Nostromo Nostromo is offline
(ENG) Passed Eddie Paynter's 1540 Test runs
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wootton Bassett, England
My main national team: India
My other team/s: Any team that plays well with a big heart
Posts: 1,582
Historically, in cases involving a big organisation against the proverbial little man, a lot of sympathy could go to the man especially when the evidence is in his favour. I am sure that Hair has taken good legal advice before filing the lawsuit; if he merely wants money, then he might consider an out of court settlement that is certain to crop up at some stage. If, on the other hand, Hair wants revenge and wants to see it through, then ICC could be facing some real trouble.

Last edited by Nostromo : 03-10-2007 at 08:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007, 05:16 PM in reply to Nostromo's post starting "Historically, in cases involving a big..."
Speedboy Salesman's Avatar
Speedboy Salesman Speedboy Salesman is offline
WAT Journalist
(ENG-captain) Passed W.G. Grace's 1098 Test runs
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Birmingham, England
My main national team: England
My other team/s: India, Canada, Warwickshire
Posts: 1,138
Send a message via MSN to Speedboy Salesman
I think Hair wants at least a small amount of revenge Nostromo, I already think it's gone too far for an out of court settlement. Hair must feel as if he's got the entire ICC in the palm of his hand, especially now he's got Doctrove on his side. Expect the ICC's coffers to be a little thin on the ground after this.
__________________
Frank Skinner: "You know when Glenn McGrath trod on that cricket ball? Don't you wish it would've been a landmine?"
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007, 07:56 PM in reply to Seamer's post starting "Irony? Check the dictionary Zainub - i..."
Zainub Zainub is offline
WAT Pakistan A Selector
WAT selector - Zimbabwe A 2005
Founder of the Official World-A-Team King of Spain Fan Club
WAT Journalist  Read my Articles
(ENG-captain) Passed Ted Dexter's 4502 Test runs
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Karachi
My main national team: Pakistan
Posts: 4,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamer View Post
Irony? Check the dictionary Zainub - i think you might be using this word out of context. Either way, i wish Hair well and i hope he gets some bucks out of this. He was shafted no doubt, and i can't wait to read his book if and when it gets published.
I am perfectly aware of the context in which the word 'irony' is used, perhaps the 'irony' I used it in the context of hasn't dawned on you yet. And I'm not so sure if anything about Hair can be said with "no doubt" as you imply, if it was that cut and try, he wouldn't have had to sue his employers for "racial" discrimination like he has had to do now and he wouldn't have been almost sacked as he is now (last time I heard he was still on the elite panel but allowed to officiate matches involving non-test playing nations only). And about his book, I don't know when it comes out, but I might decide to read it too, for comic relief if nothing.

After thought: What would be really interesting if the Asian boards/some Asian players decided at this point in time to counter sue (I may be using the wrong terminology here) Hair for racial discrimination. I bet they'll be more then just a handful of players who could come in and record their statements if such a law suit was ever to be filed. Now that, would have been the really interesting thing. Not that this isn't interesting, especially the fact that people here think he has a decent chance of winning. I for one think his claims will be dismissed.

Last edited by Zainub : 03-10-2007 at 08:05 PM. Reason: removing an ambigious pronoun, adding an indefinite article and correcting the spelling of 'irony'
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007, 08:39 PM in reply to Zainub's post starting "I am perfectly aware of the context in..."
Ninjaman Ninjaman is offline
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(AUS) Passed Merv Hughes' 1032 Test runs
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,036
Cricinfo - 'Mudslinger' Hair accused of blackmailing ICC

Quote:
The ICC's barrister, Michael Beloff QC, told the third day of the hearing that much of Hair's evidence was irrelevant to the case. Earlier, Hair had described a phone call in which Rudi Koertzen, the South African umpire, had referred to the Pakistan team as cheats.
Oh!!!!



To be a fly on the wall.

Even more so when Doctrove comes around (if he hasn't already) to realising that Hair is saying he (Doctrove) is only continuing to umpire the top nation's games because he's black!!

Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007, 09:07 PM in reply to Zainub's post starting "I am perfectly aware of the context in..."
Nostromo's Avatar
Nostromo Nostromo is offline
(ENG) Passed Eddie Paynter's 1540 Test runs
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wootton Bassett, England
My main national team: India
My other team/s: Any team that plays well with a big heart
Posts: 1,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zainub View Post
After thought: What would be really interesting if the Asian boards/some Asian players decided at this point in time to counter sue (I may be using the wrong terminology here) Hair for racial discrimination. I bet they'll be more then just a handful of players who could come in and record their statements if such a law suit was ever to be filed. Now that, would have been the really interesting thing. Not that this isn't interesting, especially the fact that people here think he has a decent chance of winning. I for one think his claims will be dismissed.
Zainub, you are being naive in the extreme. If anyone in the "Asian Boards" as you put it, chose to make a monumentally stupid move at this stage like a counter-suit (which I seriously doubt), it will only give a lot of credibility to Hair's claim that the ICC is being institutionally racist, which is what this case is all about in the first place. If anything, it will strenghten his position and a lot of 'neutrals' will then support Hair. There are already quite a few rumblings that the ICC is a tad too pro-Asian and I am not all that certain that this view is entirely unjustified, especially when you read comments on certain other forums which are not as well moderated as this one. Furthermore, all concerned will be aware that such a move will simply create a 'regional' divide in the cricketing world, something which no one wants.

And Ninjaman, Hair will not be as stupid to lose his supporter by putting his case in the way you suggest. His lawyers will school him on exactly how to elicit maximum sympathy with least antagonism.

Last edited by Nostromo : 03-10-2007 at 09:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007, 09:09 PM in reply to Ninjaman's post starting "Cricinfo - 'Mudslinger' Hair accused of..."
Zainub Zainub is offline
WAT Pakistan A Selector
WAT selector - Zimbabwe A 2005
Founder of the Official World-A-Team King of Spain Fan Club
WAT Journalist  Read my Articles
(ENG-captain) Passed Ted Dexter's 4502 Test runs
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Karachi
My main national team: Pakistan
Posts: 4,515
So Koertzen called the Pakistan team "cheats", this poses several questions/thoughts

a)why should one just assume he'll have said so because Hair said he said so
b)even if he said so that would be his 'opinion'
c)and most importantly how exactly does that prove that the ICC was racially discriminating towards Hair?

I'll go read the report and see if it says anything on the judges yawning during the court's session today, that would probably be the most interesting event of the day, I'd think.

Also, if Koertzen indeed said what he's being quoted/paraphrased as saying, then Pakistan could file a defamation case against him as well, not that I think they should, but stating it as a fact, for it is no small business labeling people "cheats" without sufficient evidence, as Hair, Doctrove and some of their sympathizers have have discovered.

Last edited by Zainub : 03-10-2007 at 09:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007, 09:22 PM in reply to Nostromo's post starting "Zainub, you are being naive in the..."
Zainub Zainub is offline
WAT Pakistan A Selector
WAT selector - Zimbabwe A 2005
Founder of the Official World-A-Team King of Spain Fan Club
WAT Journalist  Read my Articles
(ENG-captain) Passed Ted Dexter's 4502 Test runs
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Karachi
My main national team: Pakistan
Posts: 4,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostromo View Post
Zainub, you are being naive in the extreme. If anyone in the "Asian Boards" as you put it, choose to make a monumentally stupid move at this stage like a counter-suit (which I seriously doubt), it will only give a lot of credibility to Hair's claim that the ICC is being institutionally racist, which is what this case is all about in the first place. If anything, it will strenghten his position and a lot of 'neutrals' will then support Hair. There are already quite a few rumblings that the ICC is a tad too pro-Asian and I am not all that certain that this view is entirely unjustified, especially when you read comments on certain other forums which are not as well moderated as this one. Furthermore, all concerned will be aware that such a move will simply create an unwanted divide in the cricketing world which no one wants. And Ninjaman, Hair will not be as stupid to lose his supporter by putting his case in the way you suggest. His lawyers will school him on exactly how to elicit maximum sympathy with least antagonism.
Excuse me! I can do without others calling my opinions "naive". Just like you're entitled to your opinion of the ICC being institutionally racist and that Hair was wronged, I'm entitled to thinking he that he's person with a super inflated ego, a flawed sense of self-righteousness and that he is an Asian-phobist (I'm not sure if I think he's racist per se, but what I said that others in the cricket community in this region may think so and they're of course entitled to their views too, they can't be labeled 'naive' by Hair sympathizers for holding such views).

As for the ICC's structure, I'm sorry you're so miffed that the some of ICC's structure requires decisions being made on the principle of "majority" vote and that you find that offensive ("too pro-Asian" you call it) but that's just how most international organizations work. Ever figured out how the United Nations Security Counsel voting procedure works? Wait a second, isn't that how all real democracy works? As much as it would annoy England, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, the so-called 'Asian block' does form the majority of the ICC's test members, and that does mean that they'll have more say on matters. But I don't see how that is wrong. Its not perfect, but as the American president Jefferson once said, the only alternative that we have, is decesion of the minority and decesion by individuals, both of which are even more dangerous the decesion of the majority. This is how things the work the world over. Majority's decesion stands. If you don't like their decesion, either get in the majority your self or just learn to put up with it.

Last edited by Zainub : 03-10-2007 at 09:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply Without Quote


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:30 PM.

Page generated in 0.774 seconds (72.36% PHP - 27.64% MySQL) with 13 queries

Partner Sites: - pakistancricketzone.com | Fantasy Cricket | Cricket World Cup Images | Cricket 24/7 | Third Umpire | Indian Cricket League

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0