English cricket fans desperately need a laugh as they prepare for the big slide down the rankings, so i am glad that i could give you one greg

But lets be blunt about county cricket - it breeds mediocrity. Any Aussie that goes over there for a stint comes back fat, lazy and playing like an Englishman, which is why C.A doesn't let our elite players go there very often.

Dismiss Hogg to your peril - I seem to remember Tait getting the same treatment from certain English members here 6 months ago. Now how did those two guys go on the big stage of the world cup, playing under pressure where performance actually counts for something.............

Cricinfo - Records - ICC World Cup, 2006/07 - Most wickets

Nuff said.

I rate Hogg above England's one dimensional "Monty" and that other no-name spinner that sometimes gets a run with you guys. Put a baggy green on a guys head, and he inevitably rises to the occasion.

*Edit*

If the county scene is the benchmark of cricket ability, then why is not "Ramps" being rushed back into the English side to tear the cricketing world apart? Could it be that he scored all those runs against half-assed bowlers coming in off half a run up, with infielders back on their heels scratching their balls, and outfielders stifling yawns while wondering if scones will be served at tea? Hardly the environment to inspire someone to play at their best i would say.

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But Aurelius, he does employ calculated aggression. If he just swiped at every ball he would fail far more than he succeeded. To score 8000 runs at a test average of 53 takes some doing - particularly as the guy faces up against the best bowlers opposing nations can throw against him, with a new ball in their hands.

People deride Hayden (jealously??) on a regular basis, but i bet they would love to have someone like him opening for their team. They can say what they want of course, but history will belie their statements.

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Acker called the pair "The big tonkers" and summed up their approach as follows: "We are big we hit hard and we will hit." As it happens... I think Acker sells the pair of them short... but let's at least acknowledge that as an approach to cricket... "We are big we hit hard and we will hit" really, REALLY sucks... and fully warrants the line I added - "Right up until we miss.... after which we'll retreat to the pavillion and (if we're lucky) make way for someone who isn't a front foot bully who can show us how the type of delivery that stuffed us SHOULD have been played (or perhaps, shock horror, left)."

Well i will reiterate Rachel - 8000 test runs at an average of 53.

What do you expect him to do? Put all those successful shots in the cupboard, and start working singles in the process of grinding out slow painful innings, thus leaving his team-mates less time to win a test? Treat bowlers with the respect he feels they don't deserve? Retire, because everyone thinks the wickets are too flat these days and the bowlers are crud?

God, give him a break - he's a match winner. And i will add that the guy earned his colours and fought his way into the Aussie side playing at the Gabba - one of the bounciest, seaming wickets in the world.

Maybe that's the key to his success. After playing so much in the difficult conditions of the Gabba, and in the strongest domestic competition in the world, everything else seems like childsplay

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Fair enough Seamer. For the record I like Hayden, regard him as a very good batsman and enjoy watching him bat. I suppose it was just a general statement more than one aimed at Hayden in particular, really; how often do you see batsmen play absolutely unnecessary shots only to get out to them when there's no need? The Pakistanis seem to do it quite a bit, as well as the West Indians, and it's just so frustrating because they could do a lot better with a little discipline.

You may win the ashes but you can't beat us at rugby union.

LOSERS.

I don't really care what Hayden and Symonds do.. but I'd like to see everyone involved in cricket put their minds to eradicating (from junior level right through to Test cricket) any vestiges of a mindset that says "We are big we hit hard and we will hit".

ps. Not sure it would be such a bad motto for a few of the England Rugby forwards though: maybe there's lots of subtlety that's wasted on me... but the talk is now very much of "physicality" rather than finesse!

What, so next week i should teach my kids "You are small, you will hit soft, and you will lose"

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A kayaking friend of mine, some 20 years ago, spent several years trying to learn from what I did: he was built like the proverbial repository... but recognised that resorting to that strength to do what I managed without that strength would constitute a poor effort.

A few years later I climbed with two guys who'd been up the north face of the Matterhorn and whose lead climbing on rock was in the Extreme 4 - Extreme 5 range. The one was an ex-marine PT inspector, and even by the standards of modern rock jocks he was immensely powerful and extremely good at using that brawn to extricate himself from difficult situations... but he had no hesitation in telling me to watch and learn from the other guy - a wirey climber who just never seemed to get into trouble in the first place.

I'd expect any decent cricketing coach to take the same approach with ANY junior: get the focus on technique, touch and timing... on positioning and placement... and actively discourage reliance on brawn. I'd expect a focus on playing late, using the pace on the ball on deliveries that need hitting and showing good discipline in relation to deliveries that are best left alone.

Sadly... most will eventually cop out: too many tall batsmen will get forward as a means of playing the percentages when they should really be getting back and backing themselves to make the adjustments... and many well built cricketers will start going hard at balls in the hope of riding a lucky streak - but surely no coach (or dad) should actively encourage such back-sliding!

Two points for you seamer. First you really are keen to give us Engishmen a laugh if you are seriously suggesting Hogg is a better test spinner than Monty. He certainly has been inspired by the mythical "baggy green" with his test bowling average a rip roaring 50+; to be fair he did play a proportion of these games against the undoubted might of.. erm, Zimbabwe.

On a more serious note, and you may know the answer to this having seen the situation domestically, what approach do you think Hayden would have taken if he ever had to bat in a test aginst McGrath and Warne.