Hide/show banner
Fantasy Cricket

Welcome to the World-A-Team Cricket Forum. We promote friendly, good-natured, quality cricket discussion.
Go Back   World A-Team Cricket Forum > International Test Cricket
Sitemap Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Contact Us Chat Room Shoutbox News Podcasts Fantasy Cricket

International Test Cricket Discuss current and forthcoming matches; general cricket issues, women's Test cricket and First-class matches involving Associate and Affiliate members.

Reply Without Quote
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 07:52 AM in reply to Maranello's post starting "Indeed. The story those impressive..."
Milo Milo is offline
World XI (1980 onwards) -World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG) Passed George Lohmann's 1205 Test runs
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
My other team/s: England
Posts: 1,236
A batsman's job is to score runs, I've always said that and one cannot argue with that. However, we seem to be talking as if Hayden is the only player to do this. When Greenidge and Gavaskar were the only openers in the 80s to approach/exceed a 50 average (when Gooch averaged 37, Wright 31, Haynes 40, Mudassar/Mohsin 39, Wessels 42, Foxy Fowler 30) one could make a much better argument for their prowess. However, since 2000, Gibbs has averged 49 opening, Smith 48, Langer 5000 runs @ 48, Vaughan 49 and even Sehwag who can't even get a place in the Indian side averaged 51 opening up. Hayden has shown that he has had the better of most international bowlers since 2000, but I repeat, he is NOT alone. Hayden had three fantastic years in which he scored 4000 test runs at 70, but since then he has really not performed any better than a number of opening batsmen that have played in this era and certainly not as well as some middle order players.

He probably would get the opening berth in a team of this decade but he really is nowhere near the class of great openers from previous generations. Personally there is a huge question mark about his ability to play on semi-bowling friendly surfaces outside Australia. He struggled badly on both his tours to England, struggled in New Zealand and apart from two hundreds in the West Indies (one of which was on a road in St Johns where the Windies chased down 400) he struggled to reach 20. He loves hard bouncy true pitches and murders everyone on these (like in Australia) but he is very limited (although effective) player.

Last edited by Milo : 10-10-2007 at 08:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 13-10-2007, 06:45 AM in reply to Maranello's post starting "That's illogical R. If the delivery..."
acker's Avatar
acker acker is online now
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG) Passed Trevor 'Barnacle' Bailey's 2290 Test runs
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: now SW New South Wales
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: Western Bulldogs
Posts: 2,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maranello View Post
That's illogical R. If the delivery should have been left, then missing it would not cause our retreat to the pavilion
Excellent point Maranello, are you more intrested in how they look when the ball goes past them Rachael ?
Unfortunately wether you hold the bat above your head and let the ball past, or take huge swoosh at it and miss; the amount of runs you get remains the same Zero
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 13-10-2007, 07:49 AM in reply to acker's post starting "Excellent point Maranello, are you more..."
Rachael Rachael is offline
Administrator
WAT selector
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG-captain) Passed Mike Atherton's 7728 Test runs
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Norfolk
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
Posts: 7,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by acker View Post
Unfortunately wether you hold the bat above your head and let the ball past, or take huge swoosh at it and miss; the amount of runs you get remains the same Zero
Try a "huge swoosh" at 200 balls pitched on or around off stump from a bowler who is trying to get the ball to move away... and then mix in 200 leaves where you hold the bat above your head... and 200 leaves where you linger on the back foot, with minimal backlift, and play just inside the line (with soft hands) to any ball that is definitely (rather than possibly) moving away... and see how many times you get out in each manner.

I agree that with holding the bat above your head... you will be spectacularly unlucky get out to any ball that missed the stumps (though you would be stuffed each time the ball failed to swing). The "huge swoosh" offers no such let-off: if you miss completely then fine... but that's the way to interest everyone from the keeper through the slips to gully and point... and quite possibly some of the guys infront of the square as well!
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 14-10-2007, 06:21 AM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Try a "huge swoosh" at 200..."
acker's Avatar
acker acker is online now
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG) Passed Trevor 'Barnacle' Bailey's 2290 Test runs
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: now SW New South Wales
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: Western Bulldogs
Posts: 2,291
Rachael I agree with your basic stance in the sense that if we were talking about cricket in 60's, 70's and 80's their was a greater need for players to be carefull "going for a flurry of full blloded shots" (swoosh's)
Grounds were bigger, their was more variable bounce with uncovered pitches and it was before a revolution in bat technology.
But now grounds are roped in "smaller", pitches are covered, their have been advances in turf technology and grass breeds to make more batting friendly consistant pitches, the game has moved from amature to proffesional status hence players have time do more batting, bowling, feilding, strength, aerobic, speed + reaction programs, teams have nutritionalists working with players and advances in cricket bat technology now rewards shots hit outside the "sweet-spot" as well as with it including edges and nick's which in combination have turned a red blooded swoosh mis-hit into a shot nowadays more capable of scoring the maximum runs a single shot can 6.
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 15-10-2007, 04:14 AM in reply to acker's post starting "Rachael I agree with your basic stance..."
Quagmire's Avatar
Quagmire Quagmire is offline
WAT World Cup Predictor
WAT Journalist
Moderator
(SA) Passed Colin Bland's 1669 Test runs
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: melbourne
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: Victoria, Lancashire, Durham
Posts: 1,646
The opening position has changed since Greenidge and Haynes who were one of the first opening batsmen who looked to dominate from ball one. The opening batsman’s job is no longer to stick it out and wear off the shine of the new ball by working it around and playing defensively. We have ODI's to thank for that along with Haynes and Greenidge. Blunt force trauma is what Greenidge and Haynes introduced into the test arena, the ball is harder and the ball comes off the bat faster so why not use it to your advantage, which Hayden and Langer continued with. Its funny because everyone talks about technology and smaller grounds flatter wickets, but there is one thing that has not really changed since the beginning of cricket and that is batsman's averages, opening batsman these days are more likely to have one of there teams best batsman opening, where in the past the best three batsman were usually 3 to 5. Now it is usually 1 to 4. From what I have seen of old innings by Greenidge and Haynes is that there techniques were no where near as good as Hayden and Langer's, not to say that one is better than the other but its just how cricket has involved into a professional sport. Also Hayden and Langer's running between the wickets together was nothing short of amazing.
__________________
Bill Ponsford - The only one who could play in Bradman’s company and make it a duet.
Reply With Quote
  #46 (permalink)  
Old 16-10-2007, 06:05 AM in reply to Quagmire's post starting "The opening position has changed since..."
acker's Avatar
acker acker is online now
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG) Passed Trevor 'Barnacle' Bailey's 2290 Test runs
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: now SW New South Wales
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: Western Bulldogs
Posts: 2,291
In fact opening batting is becoming so good in One Dayer's some later order batsmen like 6 & 7 are getting starved of batting opportunities on tour. Look at poor old Mike Hussey.
Reply With Quote
Reply Without Quote


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:25 PM.

Page generated in 0.435 seconds (62.16% PHP - 37.84% MySQL) with 13 queries

Partner Sites: - pakistancricketzone.com | Fantasy Cricket | Cricket World Cup Images | Cricket 24/7 | Third Umpire | Indian Cricket League

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0