It would be interesting to see how many of Murali's wickets were top order guys, and what there scores were, when he did take the wicket.

Two points

1. He has picked up so many wickets against minnows it does make any record that he takes from Warne seem unjust
2. He has though taken an amazing amount of wickets, even if you do take the minnows out - just not quite to the same record breaking level

I do back Rachael, that Murali has too often been the only decent bowler on show for Sri Lanka, and had to create pressure on his own (and often without the pressure create by runs on the board). However, this does also mean that he has more opportunities to take 5fers, as he was the only guy likely to take wickets... how many more wickets would Warne have taken if he wasn't in competition with McGrath, Lee, Gillespie? However, how much pressure was create by their presence at the other end?

For me it is something we will never know the answer too?

For me Warne was the better spinner, but Murali is still a Test Great.

There was a time when Rachael kept telling us that Zoysa was a great bowler, in fact, one of her favourites who swings the ball. She also neglects to consider Vaas, a bowler (admittedly one I don't really rate) who has taken 300 test wickets and often been the recipient of her waxing lyrical.

Only if pitches suitable for off-spinners constitute a "good" wicket Rachel.

Look at the facts. From the dusty turners of India, to the low slow wickets in N.Z, to the fast wickets of S.A to the swinging, seaming conditions of England, Australia has been up to the task. Australia has a very versatile selection of wickets which is why we have been successful all over the world.

Off spinners get a good crack in Sydney, but if they bowl very well, they also have the chance of some success in Perth and Adelaide as well.

You can't have your cake and eat it in this case. If you prepare a wicket that is off-spinner friendly, then you lose in other areas such a pace and seaming qualities.Australia has a lot of big strong men, so of course we will tend to focus more on pace as will South Africa and the West Indies who also tend to have a high proportion of big strong specimens.



Milo has covered this point already Rachel. I think this statement of yours contradicts some of your earlier comments on Sri Lankan players such as Vass

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Cake and eat it Seam?

Didn't you tell me on another thread that Hayden would have got the better of Warne had they played each other in tests. Murali's record is not the greatest against Australia but Warne never had to bowl at them at all!!

Its a game of opinions and so you are entitled to a cynical smile when Murali breaks the record next month (as he undoubtedly will) and I'll save my cynical opinions for the hero worship of a drug cheat.

Well SBM, Warne did not have the wood on all the batsmen around the world. Hayden would have been a fine challenge for him


I used statistics to put Muralitharan's career into perspective. The bulk of his wickets were taken on Sri Lankan taylor-made wickets, and against the minnows. Do you think the bulk of Warne's wickets were taken on the back of him using non performance-enhancing diauretics?

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Playing for Australia, with the backing of the teams he's played in has helped him hugely. Murali hasn't had the massive totals to play with that Warnie has. Both are (were) truely great bowlers. Yes, Murali has made the most of playing against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe more than anyone else but at the same time he's had far more pressure placed on his shoulders to perform. Warne's always had expectations but he's always had back up (except maybe the Ashes in 2005 when he failed to single handedly beat England). I'm sure that Murali would have swapped places!

Fair enough Seam. One of these days we'll agree on something mate

You are the master of the stats; how easy it would be to see how many of their respective wickets were tailenders or is that tricky to sort out. I would not have the first clue how to do that but you might?

While your up Seam do you have a link to the radio commentary for the game?

Murali

25.7% of wickets in batting position 1-3
42.6% of wickets in batting position 4-7
31.7% of wickets in batting position 8-11

Warne

23.0% of wickets in batting position 1-3
39.8% of wickets in batting position 4-7
37.1% of wickets in batting position 8-11

Interesting Ninj;so more fuel to the fire that Murali is best. Lets see how the aussies spin that one.

Thats because we had bowlers like Mcgrath and Gillespie who most of the time damaged the top order batsmen. Proven by that Warneys highest percentage of wickets goes to the middle order..