If you were to produce the ultimate spinner he would have Warne's mastery of flight, drift and dip... Kumble's exceptionally disguised variations (far better disguised than Warne's ever were)... and Murali's ability to exploit a 4th / 5th day pitch with speared in balls that give the batsman little time to react and (aside from varying significantly in pace) do different things off the pitch.

The purist will always rate the mastery of deception in the air (flight, drift, dip) and guile (disguise of variation) over "mere" effectiveness off the pitch... but effectiveness in exploiting conditions that give the spinner the chance to shine is what wins matches... and Murali's second to no-one on that front.

Better still, how about a bowler with Qadirs variations. From what i've read his googlys and top spinners were wonderfully disguised and apparently he even had a few variations of the googly.

My take on Murali is that he is a great bowler and one of the best ever despite my (strong) reservations about his Doosra. To exhibit the control he has with that action is exceptional. Ian Chapple was on TMS this morning and he said "if anyone else bowled with that action they would either hit the square leg umpire or the point fielder". To be honest i couldnt disagree with that statement.

Muralis one weakness is that as soon as batsman go agressive against him he changes to defensive fields and bowls faster and more negative. Warne never got bothered so much if he got hit thats why i personally rank Warne as the greatest spinner ever and Murali number 2.

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Mark.

As I understand it, Kumble's disguise is pretty exemplary: he doesn't get the revolutions on the ball that Warne does... which has impact in terms of flight, drift and dip as well as in terms of natural variation off the pitch... but where Warne's variations are so telegraphed that only a tailender would struggle to read them... Kumble appears to routinely get top batsmen to mis-read his deliveries.Make a distinction: on hard-wearing, very true Aussie pitches on which he stands no chance whatsoever of getting any purchase on the pitch... he understands the situation and sets appropriate fields... which is pretty much what Warne has to do on pitches that lack the pace and bounce on which he thrives.

Even Tom Moody his ex coach was saying the best way to play Murali is to attack him so he will go defensive - I would say he should know how he bowls pretty well. Murali set defensive fields very quickly last summer when Pieterson went after him.

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Mark.

Actually, I question the very fact that there IS a greatest ever bowler. If you say Murali is the greatest due to his ability to bowl off-spinners and doosras, where does that leave Dennis Lillee, who doesn't bowl spinners AT ALL? Or Malcom Marshall, Freddie Truman, Syd Barnes, Fred Spofforth? OR Shane Warne, for that matter? By the same token, you can't say that Lillee, Marshall or anyone else is the greatest bowler either, because you're comparing their abilities to bowl certain deliveries against the abilities of another bowler who doesn't even attempt to bowl in the same style.

Another example- who's better, Luciano Parvarotti or Johnny Cash? Both are acknowledged greats in their own fields of music, but whoever you prefer to listen to, the fact is that their styles of music are so different that they can't possibly be compared as singers, musicians or entertainers.

Congratulations on beating the record Muttiah Muraliduran

From a Shane Warne fan..

P.S Have you still got that Western Bulldog's jumper ? And do you ever where it ?
Might see you at the MCG on Grand Final day.....in it

Kumble is a fine bowler, but has his limitations. In a sense, he is the spinners' version of Glenn McGrath because both have excellent records gained through hard work, accuracy and persistence rather than exceptional talent.

Kumble shouldn't be anywhere near this debate. His record (and performances) outside India have by and large been really quite inadequate. To compare this with McGrath (who very rarely didn't perform anywhere) is just plainly baffling.

I quite agree Aurlius.

Its virtually impossible to compare bowlers of different eras for many reasons not least because of the pitches.

Imagine trying to play either Warne or Murali on a sticky!!